May need to do a dairy-free trial with DS, help needed

[donna_issabella]

If it was an animal allergy, ie dander or hair, you would expect some improvement with the nasonex and the clarityn.

As pp said, you have nothing to lose with trying no milk. Have seen congestion being the only symptom of milk sensitivity.

Good luck!

The blood tests are covered here in MB as far as I know. Bizarre how the provinces can differ SO much!

[Peek-a-boo]

Would blood tests reveal an intolerance, or only an allergy?

[Mashi]

Blood tests should only reveal an allergy - an allergy is an immune system response, an intolerance is an inability of the bowel to break down the proteins.  I think a stool sample could reveal an intolerance, though I haven ever heard of one being done, just that to me that would logically make sense.  If not, then it would be a bowel biospy...so hence why no tests are done for an intolerance.

Wendy does sound to me like your doc is just saying that as a way to brush you aside and not do the tests, OR it is a doc without much knowledge on children and issues (is it a paed or GP?)  Either way though I do agree that there are other easier things to try first before going down the testing route.

Firstly I would ask (insist on?) an ENT referral.  He's had a lot going on in that area for a long time and would not hurt to have him looked at and under the care of one.  Secondly, you don't have anything to lose by going dairy free, but I would not expect results toooooooo soon, as it takes time to get the dairy out of the body. So I'd give it 2-3 weeks (though could be faster, just saying that it could take that long, too) before ruling it out.  No more milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, or anything containing milk products or traces of milk.  Replace with soy (yes can have soy allergy too but really I would just do one and if you are convinced it seems food related then I would cut out soy, suppose you could do both but it's REALLY hard and getting calcium into him might be a struggle for a while, kwim?) If there are no improvements after 2-3 weeks then you could try to remove soy as well, or if not then rule out that it is a dairy allergy and see what the doc has to say then.

HTH?

[deb]

Going to slightly disagree (Sorry Mashi!  ) having been thru the trial-and-error thing with my kids' intolerances. If you don't already have soy in the diet I wouldn't use it to replace dairy; if he turns out to be allergic to that as well as dairy, you might not be able to tell if the replacement is causing problems or if it's another food entirely. Soy isn't a complete protein anyway or a source of calcium, and there are dairy-free calcium supplements if you're concerned that he isn't getting enough thru regular food sources like leafy greens and fish; soups stock made by cooking down bones (crockpot/slow cooker works great for this!) can be another source of calcium.

(Mine have turned out to be intolerant of both dairy and soy in more than trace amounts except for yogurt, which they tolerate quite well. That was some trial and error. LOL)

Totally agree tho with getting a referral either to an allergist or ENT; hadn't even thought of ENT - Mashi is so smart!

[Mashi]

It's fine to disagree Deb, different people attack problems different ways, offering more than one way to do things is what the benefit is of a forum.  I'd still do it "my" way because trying to feed a toddler dairy and soy free is a complete nightmare, I'd eliminate the primary concern first and then if no improvements take away the rest, rather than take away both and then have to try each one on their own at some point and wait for a reaction to know which one (or both) is causing the problem.

Soy isn't a complete protein anyway or a source of calcium,

Alpro soy milk has as much calcium as cow's milk. Might be fortified and not natural but it's still there.

[Tweakster]

We see a primary pediatrician and she has a physician assistant (PA) in the practice.  Also several nurses.
Sometimes we just see the PA, she's a doctor in her home country but not here.  
She's very good, and they are all good with Finn.  They really helped us get through reflux and me with my PPD, so I do trust them.

I think what the PA was saying is that there is more chance of a false positive and that he is really young to sit still for a test.  And even then, if we find out he's allergic to say dust, then what?  She feels it would be better to try Claritin/Nasonex combo for allergic rhinitis or elimination if it is dairy, although they really feel strongly there that he would have additional symptoms with dairy.  But they will support whatever we decide.
She mentioned referral to an ENT so I will take her up on that for sure.  

His cough is getting far worse, he was coughing every hour last night in the first part of the night, interestingly only the first part of the night (or at least we didn't hear him otherwise), luckily he just coughs and goes back to sleep.  But it's a productive cough and it looks like it is tearing his throat out :-(  

The nose is just non-stop 24/7...never a dry moment.

Would the ENT refer to an allergist if they didn't find anything?  What about adenoids, someone mentioned they can cause trouble...would that not have been seen by the docs by now?

I read that for a true dairy-free trial, we need to eliminate other things like casein, whey, etc.  Are those things labeled as is or hiding as other ingredients?  I guess I am not sure about these 'hidden' ingredients.

Oh and lastly, they grow out of it right? 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I read that for a true dairy-free trial, we need to eliminate other things like casein, whey, etc.  Are those things labeled as is or hiding as other ingredients?  I guess I am not sure about these 'hidden' ingredients.

Oh and lastly, they grow out of it right? 

Yes, everything should be labelled...dairy is one of the top 11 (I think they are up to 11 now) allergens that are supposed to be declared on the labelling. 

I really hope they do outgrow it...we are still waiting on that though!!

[MLK]

Wendy most do grow out of it by age 2 to 3. My DS2 has just turned 2 and we are going to do a trial of milk as soon as he is well (so next spring in 3 months time probably!)

I would also do dairy and soy free at the same time, that way you get answers faster. Just heard too many stories of milk being replaced with soy, kid seemed to get better initially then got worse, ending up with very confused parents. I really don't think it's that much harder going without both, as you are probably going to have to do most cooking from scratch anyway.  Main issue might be finding soy flour free bread, health food shops are the best bet. Don't worry about soy lecithin, that would only bother the most sensitive kids.

A lot of dairy free things you can get soy versions of you can sometimes get rice milk versions eg rice milk, rice "ice cream". Not yoghurt as far as  I know.

The one thing that is almost impossible to replace is cheese - the fake "cheeses" are vile!

[Tweakster]

Can you get a blood test only or do you need both blood and scatch test to be accurate?
I would think a blood test would be way easier...and less traumatic for the kid.

[MLK]

We never did either - just did an elimination. The results were pretty clear and I didn't see the point of a blood test if we didn't have to!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

You don't need both...ours did scratch and when it showed nothing we did the blood tests...also negative!! Frustrating, but I wonder if it was because it had been months since she had ingested eggs or milk and so the antibodies may not have been present.  They then made us do a food challenge at home, which didn't go great, and the next step is a food challenge in the Dr.'s office this summer.

[deb]

The soy cheese you can get at our grocery also has casein in it anyway.

Honestly, it was learning to do more cooking from scratch that helped us the most. We totally know what goes into EVERYTHING when we do that! Was very time-consuming at first but as I've gotten better at it, it's gotten much easier.

[Mashi]

Would the ENT refer to an allergist if they didn't find anything?  What about adenoids, someone mentioned they can cause trouble...would that not have been seen by the docs by now?

I'm not sure if the adenoids would be noticed - I had mine out with my tonsils at 18 and despite all of the chronic throat infections and things going on, problems with my adenoids were not noticed until the last minute. The ENT would be one to ask.

I read that for a true dairy-free trial, we need to eliminate other things like casein, whey, etc.  Are those things labeled as is or hiding as other ingredients?  I guess I am not sure about these 'hidden' ingredients.

My list is from the booklet the NHS gave me and  lists all of the milk ingredients you need to avoid. Some names might be different in Canada but at least this will get you started:
*Milk
*modified milk
*milk solids
*non fat milk solids
*skimmed milk powder
*cream
*artificial cream
*cheese
*yogurt
*buttermilk
*butter
*margarine
*ghee
*whey, whey solids
*hydrolysed whey protein
*hydrolysed whey sugar
*casein (curds)
*caseinate
*hydrolysed casein
*lactose

HTH!

[Tweakster]

OK just booked an appt. for Thurs eve with clinic. 

I think we shall give up on the Nasonex and Claritin because it isn't helping and frankly I don't like shooting stuff up his nose, although DH does the administering, I still don't like it!  He coughs and sputters after and I feel horrible, he doesn't do the same with saline.

Mashi, this is OT but I just read your location information, it's funny but that would have been my same tagline circa 2007 lol

[firsttimemummy]

Just skimming the posts quickly so apologies if I repeat/say anything irrelevant. DS has a cold cows milk intolerence (as do I) - we changed from cows milk to soya but this irritated his bottom, so now we use rice milk (the one with added calcium) which DS LOVES! Recently we were speaking to someone and she pointed out that if it is cold cows milk that is the problem UHT would be fine as that is heated so much that the relevant proteins are destroyed!!  I spoke to a dietician about DS cutting out milk and she was happy with him having Ready Brek for breakfast and just a couple of small cups of rice milk ...

We discovered the cows milk intolerence when he has a bad cold and 2 perforated ears (ear infections can be linked to cows milk problems, in some people) - he was only having breastmilk so I cut out his cows milk - his nose cleared, until the morning after having cows milk again for supper.  Since cutting it out he has had a clear nose!

Unfortunately he also has problems with many other foods to going to see paeds next month (carrots!!, citrus fruits, etc).  A friends LO years ago got tested (maybe eczema?) and it turned out to be eggs and dust! I think they were advised to get laminate floor etc

Most food problems go around age 2, some thing when they are 7 (esp problems like ear infections, although it is sometimes a 7 year cycle) ...