every day is different - need advice with set times...

[~Emma~]

How many days have you been doing it now?

 Interesting Kathryn. I like that idea.

[*Becky*]

this is day 3. Day one he slept. Day 2 and 3 total refusal.

I don't think the answer is to let him have no nap because he will be a total mess and then wake early tomorrow but once he has decided he is not napping then the only way he will sleep is in the car but that is just rubbish for me and also sends out totally the wrong message.

He is just shouting for a story now but if I go anywhere near him it will be full on tears.

[*Becky*]

aaagh - full on screaming and getting hysterical. WTF!

[*Becky*]

ok so that did not go well at all. Felt like he was basically CIO. DH tried to calm him and he then totally lost it. Major tantrum.

so I think we can forget 'quiet time'

I just feel like walking away from it all. BWing since 4 months for this kind of behaviour.....absolutely rubbish.

[KathrynK]

Big hugs Becky 
Just to clarify, Alex is still in his cot, but just with a pillow and duvet like a big boy. I am soooooooooo not ready to do the transition to BBB yet.

Forgive me if I am going over old ground (terrible memory) but would it make a difference if you chose 12pm as your set time rather than 12.30? Just wondering if he is a bit OT and that's why having meltdown?

xxxxxxxxxxx

[*Becky*]

well I was doing 12pm but seemed to have the same problem but you could be right. Tbh I just don't know at all, I really don't. Is it UT/OT/Behavioural or what?

Generally he is a kid who sleeps when he is tired i.e. no problems going down at night even on days with little sleep but he could be OT, I certainly am.

I like the duvet idea, just scared that without the gro-bag he will try and climb out of the cot but it is def worth considering.

Oh I feel at such a loss now....

[~Emma~]

((((((((hugs)))))))) Becky. I so know where you are coming from. This was us a couple of weeks back. B just would not nap and I was climbing the walls with it.

 I dont think the answer lies in no nap either but if you want do set times you need to take the rough days with it. Nothing you do now that he is a toddler will bring you complete and utter consistancy, infuriating but true I'm afraid. The set times are more for your sake and his too to a certain extent of course.

 My personal opinion is to stick with it for at least a week. At the very least. Its just like anything we try with sleep, you cant judge whether its working or not unless you give it good bash.


(((((((hugs)))))))

[*Becky*]

thanks emma - kind of what i needed to hear...if i don't stick with this then what iykwim.

DH has taken him out in the car as he has some stuff to do....he got so wound up there was no way he was going to sleep and we were both crying...

He needs to nap, I am 100% sure of it so will keep on trying. I just wish we did not have to go through such extreme behaviour. I will keep with 12.30pm. The problem is of course that he gets wound up so quickly that it is not just a case of persevering really, there is only so much crying I can take and it is not really getting us anywhere either apart from me mad.

[*Becky*]

what i meant to say was that if it is going to be that stressful for us both then it is not quiet time anyway is it...i wish there was something he would respond to but he will not be AP'd and he will not sleep wit me in the room. If he decides not to sleep that is it.

[KathrynK]

If you were having the same problems with a different time, it may well be behavioural then. Do you think he would respond to something like a sticker or a stamp on his hand as a reward if he stayed for some quiet time without making a fuss? Or is he too little for something like that?

Am thinking how to get him to "like" bed- Alex loves to come in our bed and snuggle under the duvet and pretend to be asleep (- he makes snoring noises, v cute) so I encouraged this by bringing him into our bed in the morning, watching a bit of tv, enjoying just laying there relaxing so he could see how much *I* like bed, getting him ready for bed on our bed, and letting him snuggle there, playing in bed with him and also pretending to sleep; then giving him his own duvet was so exciting for him, he is a big boy now, etc etc. At bedtime he gets into bed and sits there like a big boy with his beaker of milk and has 3 stories, then 3 lullabies then lays down and lights out. He also takes a cuddly toy with him to bed now (this is VERY new as previously he would just play with it and not sleep so toys were not allowed) and - crucially for him- he is allowed to choose himself which cuddly toy it is from the basket before he gets into bed.
I think treating him not like a baby any more in relation to sleep has really helped. It's weird, since he turned 2 he seems to have "suddenly" grown up, and my friends say the same of their lo's too.

Don't know if any of this will be helpful, just thinking out loud for you, really  

[~Emma~]

A couple of weeks ago B was having his lunch. Nap always, always comes striaght after lunch. Always. He was refusing to eat ( whats new!) so I said its time for nap. He then threw a complete wobbler, total tantrum like I had never seen before. I wrestled him hlafway upstairs and he started crying for his soup, begging me to go back down and feed him soup. I refused and we made it into the bedroom. He was still crying for soup. He had such a fit that he vomited everywhere. I was at a total loss and so, so upset. Nap refusal at its very,very worst. We had a few days like that where he would tantrum over ANYTHING not to nap. Just thought I'd share so you know you are not alone. I too caved and did the car that day, nothing was bringing him back and he had the sobs for about 2 hours afterwards.

 We do the cuddly toy thing too. B has 2 lovies already but we let him pick a soft toy to take to bed. I guess it gives him some sort of control over the situation kwim?

[*Becky*]

thanks girls.
Kathryn - Henry never ever shows tired signs and is really not a 'snuggly' kid. I have tried on so many occasions to take him into our room and bed and he just climbs all over us and then says 'get up mummy'
He really does not ever just lie around or seem sleepy at all. Mornings he is mega routine driven so he has his drink and cheerios in a certain place, watching a certain programme, then it is breakfast and he just cannot deviate...believe me i have tried!
I really think he probably needs to be really tired to nap in his bed at the moment and he probably needs physical exercise which he has not had much of this weekend due to other stuff that has been going on in the house.
I agree about them growing up so much at age 2 - he seemed to change his sleep needs overnight!

[jamie11477]

I have been following and I think I missed how old Henry is...can you remind me?

[Tweakster]

Becky Finn is the same, last night we were out and with a bunch of kids at 8 p.m. - all the other kids were saying they wanted to go to bed (age range from 18 mths - 4.5 yrs) and yet there was Finn running wild around the house.  Not showing anything, other than looking drunk because he was so tired.  I totally get how hard it is when they don't show signs, they won't slow down, they won't cuddle snuggle or come into your bed for even a slight rest.  They just go go go until they can't handle themselves anymore.  He was falling over and bashing into things.

I do agree with Emma and that you need to stick it out, it's not CIO, it may feel like it is but it isn't.  He does not need you.  He simply wants what he wants and you need what you need which is rest and some time to sit and have a break.  So he'll have to either play in his cot, decide to cry and scream or maybe if you stick at it he may sleep when he realizes that he's not getting out of the room.  You can't make him sleep.  It's a hard pill to swallow but you can't.  I wish there was a way, but there isn't. 

I think in the mornings he's had enough sleep if he's doing 11 hours or more so to expect him to stay in there quietly is probably not realistic.  Finn stays in mostly quietly now but that's because he wakes often before 10 hrs most mornings...but once 11 or more hits, he wants company. 

I missed somehow that you are pregnant, oh my - sorry to hear that things are so bad when you need your rest the most.

[*Becky*]

jamie11477 - henry is 25 months.

I really appreciate you girls sticking with me, you know I just feel really alone with all this most of the time.

Yes pregnant - sound of hysterical laughter....must be mad. x