Author Topic: every day is different - need advice with set times...  (Read 11388 times)

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Offline elf

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2010, 04:06:06 am »
... also meant to say that once he's caught up on sleep 12.45pm/1pm might be an appropriate nap time for him.  I've got a few books on sleep and one of them (which is very similar to BWSAYP) suggests 1pm for a nap at 24 months...  But, again, I guess it depends on how the night sleep goes and the awake time for the day...

Offline *Becky*

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2010, 06:53:12 am »
thank you elf, it is really helpful to hear that.

well last night he STTN but woke at 5.15am which is very early for him - we usually get to at least 6.15am. I am convinced it was the stupid light. he is very touchy about things like that and has always had to sleep in a pitch black room but now he is scared of the dark i have had to give him a light. i did not get him up till the normal time but it is not helping the OT situation.

so what do i do??? the gro-clock light is just too bright for him so i am going to try and fine another one today. Again i am not sure how tough to be on this. It really affects his sleep if he has a light but if he does not have one then we get the NWing.

Will try and find a light which is very dim, just hope he accepts it but maybe i have to be tough and just say that he has a light, that is all he is getting. is that ok do you think?

so tired today and just cannot let this become a habit - we have always fought the EW's but the last 6 months he has been a lot better.

any ideas?




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Offline KathrynK

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2010, 07:02:29 am »
Becky I have got a gro- egg thermometer in Alex's room, which has a coloured light on showing the temp, and I find it too bright, so I drape a folded muslin over the top and then sit 2 cuddly toys in front of it. Means there us just enough light in that corner to reassure if he needs it, but not enough to see clearly by, so it's not disturbing him
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Offline *Becky*

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2010, 07:56:45 am »
good idea! thanks. I have one of those so will try the same. Do you think once i have done it it is ok to still be quite tough i.e. i know he will say it is too dark.




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Offline koe2moe

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2010, 10:30:07 am »
dropping some hugs for you, Becky.   will try to read through the thread soon before I say anything stupid! 



Offline elf

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2010, 12:56:56 pm »
My DD who is 3.5 has recently needed a night light.  I think initially it did contribute to a few EW's but now, it has sorted itself out.  I agree with you, as they stir around the 5am mark there is a light shining which makes it difficult to go back to sleep after 10 hours sleep. I'd keep doing what you are doing and go to him when the gro light comes on in the hope that when he does the 5.15am stir that he can somehow put him back to sleep.  Again, I'd stick with the routine in the hope that he takes the sleep he needs at the appropriate time.  I ever went to EW's with my children, but they generally just chatted and both have/had dummies so they worked out how to go back to sleep.  Hope you have a good day.  At least if he's tired from the EW he may take the nap easier and get himself back on track.  I think the main thing is that he needs to learn that protesting won't get him a nap free play day or your attention.  Might be a good idea when he's up during the day to give him lots of positive attention for when he's doing the right thing with his playing/behaviour/eating etc, just as a reminder that that you can get mummy attention that way as well... but minimize that attention when protesting sleep...

Offline Tweakster

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2010, 13:09:53 pm »
What about putting the light on a timer Becky?  It can stay on at night and through the night and then the timer can turn it off at 9 or 10 hrs sleep so it doesn't disturb him in the early mornings...?
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Offline *Becky*

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2010, 13:48:58 pm »
I am just sobbing...I just had to go through all that WIWO for 1.25 minutes and he still did not sleep and I just feel like giving up on everything.

This can't be right - what the hell am I doing wrong. I hate every day at the moment and just feel like the worst mother in the world. All that crying and for nothing.





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Offline jamie11477

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2010, 14:04:30 pm »
(((((HUGS)))))) Becky.  I wish I could help you but as you know we're going through the same thing right now.

Offline koe2moe

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2010, 14:10:17 pm »
hugsss Becky!!!  Have you tried speaking from outside his door and just repeating the key phrase instead of going in?  I have been having a rough time also.  I tried sleeping next to DS in the cot when he was awake crying at 10pm, took him 2.5 hrs to settle.  The whole time he was about to drift off, he would wake to call for me to see if i was still there, or reach his little hand to find me on the floor, etc.  I knew it was a bad idea.

I think what you did yesterday about sticking with it was right.  I think at this age, no matter what he says about light, heat, more books, etc.  you just have to repeat your key phrase.  I don't think LO's are trying to manipulate, I call it the "delay tactics" and once you stay consistent, don't even need to sound angry or anything, he will just soften and give up, coz he can't push the boundaries.  Once he realises that, he will give up.  

I agree that it's so hard through all the cryings.  Once my ex-step-mom-il (yeah u got that right, complicated) says, we don't always have to make sure that our kids are happy.  Sometimes they are not happy about something but it's what's best for them and we know better because we are the parents.  It's ok that he's crying (I was just wondering myself last night if I was doing CIO when he's screaming for milk, for diapers, etc in the middle of the night (4am, I believe), i just told him, it's sleepy time from my bed... he said a few times, cried a bit and then resettled himself.  

If it's SA, it's even more important to let me build up the trust that once he's crying, you are there (your voice), but your presence stimulates him too much.  That's what I figured out in the last 2 days.  I did get a 2.5h nap yesterday instead of the 45 mins naps on the weekend.

Hope I haven't repeated what you have tried.  I tried to skim through the whole thread from beginning to here.  hugsssssssss  



Offline elf

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #100 on: December 09, 2010, 14:38:44 pm »
More hugs... I agree with Koe.  WIWO just wasn't an option when my daughter protested sleep.  I tried it and it just did not work.  The way I would approach it is say to him and yourself, 'it doesn't matter if he doesn't nap, but he does need to learn to rest in the cot without your presense for an hour' - like what Katie suggested - give a cut off.  I think going in there and continually repeating/telling him to go to sleep will get you more stressed and him more wound up.  How about if you put on a lullaby CD (I still use one for my DD to fall asleep) and put it on for an hour or so and if he's on his own listening to the music he might relax into sleep - clearly he's tired.  Also totally agree with PP about us being the ones who have to be in charge and we can't always keep them happy, but of course we do our best.  My clinic nurse (who I trust so so much as she is amazing and has about 30 years experience, plus has read and loves BW) told me that by locking the door (which is what we had to do to keep DD in her room) took away the emotion and actually made it easier on the child.  So in my situation, me standing outside the door continually repeating, 'go to sleep' didn't have the same effect as, 'I love you,  it's time for sleep, if you don't sleep then you must rest in your bed and I will get you up in an hour, when the music CD stops', then I walked away and it made her job of falling asleep so much easier.  I certainly don't think I let my DD CIO, I just made it very clear that if she wasn't going to rest/sleep, then I was...    I have a very good friend who's DD is far more spirited that mine and she did the same thing every day, put her girl in the cot for 2 hours and although she didn't sleep, she played, after about 2 weeks her daughter went back to taking a 2 hour nap.  Even if he doesn't sleep, but learns to relax in his own company and be happy and secure in his cot (which is really important) you will get a rest and a break.  He may be picking up on the fact that you are losing a bit of confidence with the sleep thing as kids are pretty perceptive so as much as he's not trying to manipulate you, by being confident with him/looking him in the eye etc when you explain what is going to happen, he will feel really secure in what you are doing...  Another thing is, what's his environment in the room like?  Is it pitch black?  Maybe if there was more light in the room, it might be more relaxing for him.  I found that my DD didn't need the room to be pitch black for naps as she got older, in fact she napped better with a lighter room.  Another thing that another friend uses for her DD is an audio storybook for nap time.  It plays for awhile and she swears by it, because she says when her DD is protesting her nap she just tells her she has to lye in her cot and rest and listen to the story - her daughter ends up falling asleep to it - takes her mind off the protest.  It is not unusual to change the environment for sleep as they get older.  My DD used to have white noise when she was little then as she got older we went back to the Music CD, then she just told me herself, 'I don't want the music, I like it quiet' and that's how she wanted it, so that's how it became...  Might be worth changing something?

Once again, big big hugs.  It's incredibly hard when they don't sleep and you worry that you won't get out of this, but tomorrow is another day.  Try and get some rest if you can...

Offline *Becky*

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #101 on: December 09, 2010, 16:22:28 pm »
ok thanks.
Today I guess i messed up but i did the same as yesterday. He immediately throws his muslin out of the cot. without it he will not sleep, that is a fact and even if in exhaustion he fell asleep he would wake up half an hour later wanting it. So what do i do there?
I must have gone in too much so I will try speaking from the door. We are back to square one anyway as after 1.25 I got him up and i know to him that is a victory.
i worry about a tape or music as he is so touchy and has always needed quiet and darkness.
He does now have a light.
i agree that today he was probably way too stimulated, i must have gone in 30 times and we were getting nowhere but the damn muslin is a big issue now.
it just feels like i am constantly messing up and making the wrong decisions.
I guess whatever the crying i just have to be strong, it kinda feels like i am undoing everything i have worked hard to achieve with him but maybe now he is a toddler i have to be really really tough.
i am sure we will have nwings tonight but going to try and just talk to him from the door rather than going in - does that sound ok?
this is so hard.




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Offline *Becky*

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2010, 16:36:01 pm »
my other question is if he does not sleep what do i do then? I am setting us up for NWings and EWings if i do not get him a rest by some means but i hate doing it as it is tiring for me and also means that he probably has less incentive to nap in his cot.




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Offline katie80

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2010, 18:06:34 pm »
More (((hugs))), Becky!!  It really is no fun.  We're in the middle of WIWO right now too as C just wants everything from me atm (more drinks, nose wiped again, fix the blankie, lie on her floor).  We always get into this after a stretch of OT and it's because I try to do that one extra thing while she's OT, so she'll go to sleep, but then she wants it always and more.  Yesterday, she refused to nap for me (OT, I assumed), but then DH came home for lunch and put her down at 1 pm after waking at 5:30 am and she went without a fuss!  So, I knew it was an issue for me.  :(

I agree on not going in too often; it riles C up as well, and we haven't had a successful WIWO run for a long time.  But, it usually only takes one time of her crying the whole time and then she knows I mean business at bedtime or the next nap time.  The lovey thing is tough and I thought C would never sleep without her dog either, but turns out she has a couple times, because I just can't keep going in to get it for her.

I know this is too late, but if it were me, I would take him for somewhat of a drive or walk to keep the NWs at bay.  I know it's tiring, and others might disagree, but I'd rather sleep at night and go back to work on it tomorrow, then to keep on through the night.  C's never lost incentive to nap in the crib because I've taken her for a drive.

One last thing...I don't think you're undoing everything you've worked hard for.  Unfortunately, some of our kids just need reminders that we are leading them, and this is how life works.  It really sucks, I know it, I'm in the same boat, but I think staying consistent (even though he's protesting) means you're not undoing your work, he's just deciding to test the boundaries. 

More (((hugs)))!! 



Offline *Becky*

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Re: every day is different - need advice with set times...
« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2010, 18:35:25 pm »
thanks katie. i am struggling with the crying as the reason i felt so good about finding BW was it was a place which was going to help me get my lo to sleep without leaving them to cry but now tbh we have got to the point where that is exactly what i am going to have to do. it sucks and i hate it.

i took him for a nap as he had been up since 5.15am and it is not going to help our situation with this OT. If I could just get a good night then I think we would both feel better about starting out on this. I know the OT today did not help with the nap either.

he has a softer light tonight and I don't think I can turn it off later or when he wakes he will cry about it rather than settling but i will of in before my own bed and cover it quite a bit so it is visible but dim.

i will also try ignoring him unless it is a true distress cry and only then talk from the door.




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