every day is different - need advice with set times...

[Tweakster]

Oh hon you are never alone.  Never ever.  We are all here doing it too, thinking about walking away, crying in the bathroom, wondering why oh why our bloody kids won't just SLEEP when tired.  Just GO TO SLEEP and stay that way! It is such a simple concept - no baby book I read before having him mentioned that there might be the possibility that a kid won't sleep when tired.  Sure they all talked about fostering independent sleep habits, but never did it say 'oh by the way, your kid might not sleep at ALL, won't nap or sleep for very long and may get up at the crack of dawn every morning for nearly 21 mths no matter what you do...mwahahahaha'

If it wasn't for BW I think I'd be wandering the streets somewhere muttering to myself.

[~Emma~]

 You are never, ever alone honey. These spiriteds are such a handful. I sometimes feel like B makes it so hard for me to give him what he needs as he's so,so independant kwim? Eating is nightmare, napping is a nightmare blah, blah, blah and these are just the basics! Its like he's adamant that he knows what he needs best!  Then 4pm hits and he's knackered from no nap and starving from refusing to eat his lunch and I just feel like saying ''well if you had done what Mummy said you wouldn't be feeling so rotten.'' 

 DH often comments when we are out and about and he sees toddlers crashed out in buggys that DS would never,ever do that and he wouldn't. Like Finn, if there is something to see then he HAS to see it. 

 Tomorrow is a new day hon. You never know he might start to get it. (((((hugs))))))

[*Becky*]

thanks xxx interesting...put him to bed and for the first time ever really we had an issue and he told me he needed a light so I just plugged his gro-thermometre in and that seems to have worked. I think tomorrow i may just turn his clock to the lowest setting of light. Even though he needs a dark room I think this is an issue that is starting to build and I guess a natural one at some point. I remember being scared of the dark....

[*Becky*]

so day 4. In bed slightly later due to nursery. cried as soon as i left the room as it was too dark so set his gro-clock on a light setting. now he is going on about noise saying there is an aeroplane.

i really don't know what to do here because if i go near him we will end up with a crying battle but if i leave him he will not sleep and will just get more and more upset till i have to go to him. am i supposed to do wiwo for this?

It is just battles everyday.

[Tweakster]

If he's not crying just leave him - you can't make him sleep - but you can enforce some rest time in the day.  It's going to take a while for him to get it and if he knows that you will get him up or there will be car naps then he will keep it up in the hopes that you will give in.  It has to be 'this is time to rest our head' every day same routine and he stays in there for that hour tears or not.  It's not CIO it's just a toddler acting out and letting you know how they feel.  If he's crying and you think it will help then call from the door 'Henry it's rest time I'll see you in 1 hr' but I really wouldnt go in if he's Spirited.

You go make some tea put the telly on or whatever can distract you from his shenanigans.

Becky you can do this and I think you have to for your sanity!

Just my 2p and what my plan of attack with my stubborn kid will be.

[*Becky*]

ok...as long as it is not wrong, i can't get cio out of my head although right now he is just shouting for me.

I totally agree about the car - i must admit i will not be chaining myself to the house like i have for the last 6 months but if we are at home then i need to expect him to be in his room for an hour. I think tomorrow i will use the clock and involve him in it so set it for an hour. he takes no real notice of the clock but it is a tool that i can use i guess.

problem is - if he does not sleep how the heck is he going to manage till bedtime and then surely he will just get mega OT. he is not going to survive on 11-11.5 hours sleep in 24.

[Tweakster]

Not straight away no - but he will learn.  It's really a teachable moment right - Henry we all rest at 12:30 or 1 or whenever you decide that time is - it's your health Becky and your house and there is a social order and rules in the house that everyone follows.  He will get tired and he will nap but it's going to take time for the old habits to die hard, the habits where he gets to sleep in the car or come downstairs if he gets loud and unruly.  

I do not believe it's CIO - following Tracy's methods and only going in for a true distress cry.  Do you think he's in distress - true distress - or that he's just angry about being put in his room?  Only you can decide that hon.

[~Emma~]

 I echo what Wendy says. Its what I do with B. Its not CIO honey, it may not feel like it right now but trust me he does have an understanding of whats going on. He knows whats expected of him as you have been doing this now for so, so long. Its up to him to decide whether or not he sleeps.

 He will be OT before bed for sure if he doesn't nap but what can you do? You just have run with it until he 'gets' it.The older these kids get the less control we have over them sleep-wise. Hard on all parties I know, I've been there. I have THE MOST spirited little boy I have ever seen and if he can get it then I'm sure Henry will too. It takes time.

 At bedtime refusals Brodie lies there chanting ''Mummy, Mummy, Mummy.'' Heartbreaking but if i go in there and he's asking to get up and laughing at me then I'm hostage to him. When we were having NW a few weeks back he was shouting for Daddy and then DH would come get me saying he's asking for me, next thing I knew it was 2am and all 3 of us were in his nursery and he's asking for a book! If he's not ill and not truly breaking his heart there comes a point when you have to get tough. Sometimes it can be about us letting go if babyhood too.


(((((hugs))))))

[*Becky*]

he is starting to get hysterical - been in there 40 mins now.

sorry but i can't do this, it is just awful.

another huge sobbing tantrum, hitting me etc.

To me that was cio - sorry but it feels completely wrong and the bond we have just feels like it is getting broken day by day. he is walking around with red puffy eyes knocking into things he is so tired.

[~Emma~]

(((((((hugs))))))) Becky. If he's getting upset then getting him up is the right thing to do. I am pretty sure the bond you have is not broken though. Its so hard for these toddlers to express themselves that tantrums usually are the end result. It can be so hard to see them so upset.

 Have you tried wi/wo? How does he respond to it?

[*Becky*]

wiwo used to work but now he just seems to be so wound up by it.
so hard - feel exhausted by it all tbh.

[~Emma~]

 How are you doing it? When I have to do it with B I have to be quite stern with him when I go in and make sure not to go in too often.

[Tweakster]

I go in just inside the door, hand still on knob, and very sternly say 'Finley lie down, it's sleepy time, time to rest your head, mummy will see you soon'  I don't even do PD because it's silly with a nearly 35 pound kid.  He's a kid now, not a baby, I hate to admit it but it's true really! 

And that's it, then we let him cry.  He does get upset but he also knows by now that we aren't going back in there.  When the hour is up we will go and get him and just bring him down and act like it's all cool.  There's no point in lecturing or getting upset - we can't make him sleep.  He knows what he's doing but we are firm that he has to be in there for the hour - sleep or not sleep. 

If he's teething, ill or whatever then we don't.  We will do whatever we need to, rock him which almost never works, shush/pat again never works really or drive if we have to, which for us means driving well over an hour most times just to get him to sleep in the first place  Well you girls remember our 250 km day lol

But on a normal day routine prevails and I will just persevere.

But if you can't do it and be confident about it then you shouldn't - 'tis true.  Please know that you are not breaking any bonds, it's about parenting and we have to make some really tough choices in the best interests of our kids.  Not easy.

I am not sure what else to suggest really, you aren't getting a break this way either.  Maybe someone has some better tips of how to fix this!  (((hugs)))

[*Becky*]

I think this has a lot to do with nursery tbh. Been thinking about it all day. He is so difficult these days. Mummy has to do everything and he has never been like that at all. When DH gets him up in the am or tries to get him down from the table etc he freaks and he LOVES dh and they have such a good time together. When he is with me he is very demanding and tells me where to sit, what to do etc. Today I tried to lie down while he played with his combine on the bed and he got really cross. It is like he needs me all the time and to be giving EVERYTHING to him...which I feel I am but clearly he can see something is different i.e. i am really tired. He has been at nursery for 5 weeks now but missed 2 sessions. It is a great place but he says he wants to stay at home with me. He has also become scared of the dark.

I just feel there is more to this and I guess that is why my resolve to 'make' him stay in his bed through all the tears is weak.

I do need to come up with a plan though for my own health and sanity. I am not enjoying parenting at the  moment and that is sad.

[~Emma~]

 How pg are you? I think I can remember going through something quite similar with B way back. Cant remember exactly how pg I was, perhaps about 5-6 months if that. I think I posted on here about it and the general consesnsus was it down to the change of nursery (we had to change due to a move) and the pg. I didn't think the pg was registering with him at the time but someone on here pointed out that although I wasnt showing much etc he would of course know about all the 'talk' in the house of a new baby kwim? Mummy's mood may be different, more tired etc. Kids pick up on these things, thay are so intuitive. Sorry if I'm rambling but you just reminded me of it.


 ((((hugs)))))