Anyone Want To Talk About the 2-1 Transition? Thread #14

[Edesanja]

Hi Lize,
Looks good! As your day stands he is probably getting a good amount of sleep but it's probably better to tweak to get a longer PM nap so he has one good restorative long sleep.
I would do what you're currently doing for another day or two (to make sure it is a pattern not anything else causing short PM nap) and then shorten AM nap to 30mins (and shorten middle A time too).
(When you post your day can you include EWs and what it took to get him back to sleep? Do you feed him at EWs?)

[weaver]

Hi all, especially Jenny, hope the hand is feeling better, thanks for replying even when wounded  

All a bit bonkers here. Will post EASYs properly soon but just briefly to say that today we had EWs (5.30 ish but went back, then 6.30 and not going back) up at 7, refused his am nap. I think.  He may have had 5-10 minutes sleep, probably did - how else did he manage to go to 1pm?!  Went down like an angel at 1pm and slept til 3.15pm!!  Happy as larry for the rest of the day, you could tell he really felt good after that sleep. Went to bed at 7.15ish.  We heard from him again just before 9 but he went back quickly.  Wondering what on earth the morning will bring.

Thinking about it though I had been capping his morning nap (to 30 mins) for some time so perhaps we've accidentally got to very near the end of the transition?  (Please!) Only time will tell. 

Fingers crossed for a good sleep to the morning, this carry-on is just so confusing, can't wait til it settles down and I know where I stand again!

Good luck 2-1ers and have a lovely weekend. x

[Edesanja]

I see that as FANTASTIC Ann! Pity about the EW but he did go back to sleep so that's good. I think it definitely indicates you need to shorten the AM nap more. Not sure whether you should try 20 or 15mins first though. Maybe 15mins will be enough for him. Just remember whatever you choose to stick it out for a few days!!

[lize566]

Hi Lize,
Looks good! As your day stands he is probably getting a good amount of sleep but it's probably better to tweak to get a longer PM nap so he has one good restorative long sleep.
I would do what you're currently doing for another day or two (to make sure it is a pattern not anything else causing short PM nap) and then shorten AM nap to 30mins (and shorten middle A time too).
(When you post your day can you include EWs and what it took to get him back to sleep? Do you feed him at EWs?)

Well I left everything alone (although we are no longer capping his AM nap, he's naturally waking after 45 minutes) and he's had 2 hr PM naps twice, and the rest have been about an hour. Yesterday was a 2 hr PM nap day, so we went to bed at 8:30, but was up at 6:40 for the day (then had just 1 hr PM nap again) but this was his first week back at daycare, and he's been in a good mood mostly. Obviously he's been happier after getting a nap, but still in an okay mood otherwise. I think I'm going to just ride it out a little longer and see what happens next week.

Regarding the EW-I have not been feeding him, I've been shushing and reinserting the paci, but if that doesn't work I pick him up and rock him. He has still been waking up sometime after 4:30 every morning, but it's really varied so I'm not really sure what's going on. We are surviving, though, so I am just going to see how it goes.

I hope everyone else is doing well and getting enough sleep

[lize566]

We are doing well on the new schedule, with 45 min AM naps and longer PM naps, but he almost ALWAYS wakes up after 45 mins and has to be resettled during his PM nap. And he usually only sleeps another 45 minutes. Is he UT? We've been doing 3-3.25 hrs A between his 2 naps. This is what our typical EASY looks like (not sure about the times at daycare, but I would imagine it would be similar)

Wake and nurse 7 am
E 9 am breakfast
A 3 hrs
S 10-10:45 (sometimes as late as 10:30, but usually within that 30 min window)
E 11:15 Lunch or Nurse/12:30 Lunch or Bottle, depending on if he is home or not
A 3-3.25
S 2-3:30
E 3:30 Snack (he gets nursed and dinner between now and bedtime, but the times vary depending on when I get home)
A 4 hrs (sometimes even 4.5 hrs, but he handles it okay)

EW/NW have been happening but not consistently, and the time he is up is pretty inconsistent as well. My main issue is this wake up after 45 minutes during the PM nap. I know that's his typical sleep cycle, but I'm wondering why he isn't putting himself back to sleep. And I would love for him to take a longer PM nap, but will I need to shorten his AM nap more in order to get a longer PM?

[Mama Kate]

Hi ladies, I am joining in on this.  My LO is almost 10 months old and things *were* going really well up until a couple of weeks ago.  Now we are having NWs and EWs and her days are too long, so I'm trying out the short am/long pm nap.  Only day 2 so can't tell yet if it's working but I hope so... going back to work in 2 weeks and hoping to get her back on track.  Oh, did I mention she's teething too?!  aaah

[lize566]

So things were pretty well but the last 4 more he's been waking up earlier and earlier, with this morning being at 6. I don't have exact times of his easy yesterday bc he was at his sitters, but his am nap was 30 min, pm nap 1:30-3:15, asleep for the night at 7:20. He nursed at 5:30, dinner at 6:45. He seems hungry when he wakes up. No other nw'ings. Any ideas?? Sorry about the format, I'm on my phone and it's difficult to type much less format it differently! 

[Mama Kate]

Hi lize566.  Our routine is almost exactly the same as yours, except I have capped the morning nap at 30 mins.  We have 3hrs A time, 30 min nap, 3hrs A time, 1hr 40 min nap, then 4hrs A time then bed.  I think a pm nap of almost 2 hours is fantastic.  We are going through NWs at the moment, and my LO is also waking most days around 6am, will nurse then back to sleep until about 7am.

At this age, I think night-time sleep of 11hrs is pretty normal.  I know 12hrs is what we all want but if your LO is getting a solid 11hrs sleep every night that's probably all he needs.  If he's working on dropping a nap then I think it's normal that night-time sleep gets a little shorter.  I think night-time sleep generally stretches out a bit longer when you finally transition to just one nap.

[Edesanja]

Lize has he got teeth coming? Do you get your sitter to write down his EASY? Would be useful because it's hard to know without seeing A times.

Hi Kate, great that you can get her back to sleep at 6am! I think you might need to extend your first A time. As you said they often only need about 11hrs at this point in the transition and I think you need to move that first nap out to help with the EW. Try 3hrs15 at first, but it might need to move more than that. It makes for a slightly longer day which is fine.

[krisfred6]

Hi,
I have a 13 month old who appears to be trying to drop one of his sleeps.  He sleeps for 12 hours at night and has been shortening his day sleeps.  I read in the BW book that you should move their morning sleep by 15-30min every three days, but then what do you do with their afternoon sleep?  You don't just drop it cold turkey do you?  I am currently 7 months pregnant with my second child and would like to get this sorted (if possible  before baby 2 comes.

DS routine
7.00 Wake up/bottle
8.30 Breakfast
9.30 Sleep (3/4 hrs-1 1/2 hours)
11.00 Morning tea
12.30 Lunch
1.30 Sleep (3/4 hrs-1 1/2 hours)
3.30 Bottle
4.30 Afternoon tea
5.45 Dinner
6.30 Bath
6.45 Bottle
7.00 Bed

Thanks for any help you lovely ladies can provide.

[Edesanja]

Hi Kris,
Hopefully we can help you out! This can be a bit of a process so definitely can't promise you'll have it all done and dusted before baby is due sorry!
I think your A times are WAY short (1 nap might still be quite a way away (- it usually takes a while from the time they start the transition to when they are fully on 1 nap!) but even still they need a minimum of 4.5hrs-5hrs A time to make it to one nap). You will need to move slowly to avoid shocking your little guy into OT but I think 2.5hrs is SO low that you should hopefully be able to push him out to 3hrs for the 1st A time if he can make it that long (if he's used to going to sleep at 9.30 his body clock is probably pretty stuck at that time and you'll have to entertain him quite actively to get him past it).

As far as moving to one nap goes, you cut one nap short and have a nice long one for the other rather than going cold turkey with only 1 nap.

Do you have thoughts on whether you want to do short AM, long PM, or long AM, short PM?  There are benefits of each (personally I only have experience with short AM, long PM).
short AM, long PM - keep 2 naps longer (because they are tired enough after a short AM nap to still need another), can help prevent EWs (because they don't have the opportunity in the AM to catch up on lost sleep with a long nap. Can co-ordinate 2 children napping together (though your oldest may be through this stage by the time your new one gets predictable enough to have predictable-ish naps!

long PM, short AM - you have a longer A time between naps to go out, but they often move to 1 nap quicker because the start refusing the PM nap meaning the transition can be a bit more sudden and they get more OT.

I'm guessing he's angel or textbook personality?
Does he sleep 12hrs straight through with no NWs/ EWs?

Does that help a bit? If you answer those questions we can hopefully come up with a plan!
Jenny

[Mama Kate]

Hi Jenny, we'll try pushing out the first nap a little bit.  She's always had her shortest A-time in the morning, which is why I decided to do short AM long PM.  If I can keep her up later I hope it helps with the EW.  Keep you posted!

[Edesanja]

Good plan! My main advice - DON'T CHANGE THINGS UP. You need to give them time to adjust before you evaluate whether something is working or not. Stick with it for about 5 days first and then tweak if you need to.

[krisfred6]

Hi Jenny,
Thanks so much for your quick response.  My DS is a bit of a textbook/spirited (only because he is so active and meeting milestones early) toddler.  He started walking the day he turned 8 months. He spends his whole day very active, so I think he wears himself out. He sleeps from 7pm until 7am with very few NW or EW.  We are very lucky with our little man.

I think I will aim for a short am/long pm nap as hopefully we can coordinate the new bubby (and myself) into a pm sleep.

Tomorrow I will try and stretch out his A times to the 3 hours and see how that goes (is that what you suggest?) So this would make it 10am sleep for Am and depend on when he wakes up for PM.

I really appreciate your help as I have tried to find the info elsewhere and it talks about stretching out the AM but doesn't really say what to do with the PM.

Have a great day 
Kristie

[Edesanja]

Hi again Kirstie,
Wow  I haven't even HEARD of a baby walking so early! You must have been one busy mama for the past 5 months!!!

Yip try 10am tomorrow or as close to then as you can make it. Since you want to try short AM, long PM I would wake him at 45mins too if he isn't awake before then. How much A time do you usually do between naps (was hard to tell from your first post - was nap 2 always at 1.30 so A time between 2.5-3.25hrs or always 2.5hrs?)? I'd probably suggest 2.75-3hrs between naps but I guess it depends on the answers to the questions I've asked in this post!

Have you noticed a relationship between when he has short and long AM and PM naps? Does he sometimes have 2 short or is one usually long and one short?