major food refusal, 16mth old, please help :(

[huntersmummyinoz]

nicole - hugs for you too hun, not easy is it!

megan - thanks hun. he was having 15 to 17oz before the drama started. he's actually now cut that back even more as he is only drinking half a cup of milk if he has eaten a decent meal now (do breaky and lunch milk has halved). BUT i do feel that milk is still bit of a problem for us. Neocate formula is much higher in calories than cows milk (not sure how compares to regular formula) so he could actually just drink his 3 milk feeds in a day and still gain weight paed doesnt want us to do cows milk til 18mths but even if he is fine, i'm hesitant cos he is on such a restricted diet i like that he gets enuf nutrition from formula. i do think that breaky milk has got to go tho.
oh and i forgot to answer your Q about what to do if waking during night hungry. i find at this age, it's more about total food intake for the day rather than how much they eat for dinner. so if they have grazed a bit all day, and dont eat dinner, then i wouldnt expect a hunger nw. however if they have eaten barely anything all day, including dinner, then yep they could wake from hunger. so if K has had a poor eating day i will try to offer something that he'll usually accept for dinner so that he has something.

shivi - so sorry i cant remember your first name, it's been a while
- what strategies do you recommend for fussy eaters in terms of how much new food to present at a time, how often, and alongside how many accepted foods??

[*Ali*]

Kirry, could you move the milk to the snack slot rather than with breakfast if you don't want to drop it altogether?
I would hide the veggies in whatever you can. Puree them and add them to sauces/pasta/mash potatoes etc. At least he is getting them even if it isn't solving the problem with him actively trying new foods.
I am no expert but would probably stick with one, possibly 2 new foods alongside foods he already likes.

[hrk]

i have been more conscious of making our dinner appear to be the same even if it's not quite (due to food intolerances) and putting only one or two of each item on his tray and having a big 'sharing plate' on the table so he can ask for more.

We do this, too.  Then he can feel more included and see others eating it too.

- i keep putting a few pieces of diff fruit or veg on his tray, but apart from that, any other strategies? eg. do i need to put just cut up fruit on his tray for snack and nothing else? or keep offering alongside one or two familiar foods?

I think you can try a combo, and see what works better.  I find that i have to scoop the new food for him to try it.  He will usually eat the foods he prefers on his own.  I tend to make trying the new food fun, and show him I am eating it (or tease him that I am going to eat his food).

breaky - he will still eat only a couple of spoons and then cry for his milk.

 H is a huge milk drinker.  Lately he has had half his milk around 7, and then breakfast a half hour to an hour later.  K may really want to soothe or be thirsty.  I don't know if that would help.  Then possibly that would take him to lunch?

H was pretty similar with regards to the utensils. He would still rather use his fingers or have me feed him.  His fine motor has come quite a ways, but he would get very frustrated.  Personally, I would still put them on the tray.  He doesn't have to use them, but when he is ready, they are there.  Even if he plays with it, it is still practice, iykwim.  Or get them out during some play time, so he can practice scooping with them.  Then there is no food pressure.

"Raising a sensory smart child" is a great book for all parents.  It talks about us all having a bit of 'sensory disorder". It is hard to say if it is; it definitely could be lack of food exposure.  but the lack of exposure is lack of exposure to sensory input; your mouth ison e of your senses.Thus resisiting something new could be discomfort with new forms/new foods/new sensory experiences..  I think I remember reading in that book that some kids sense of taste is so sensitive that they may refuse to eat the same food, if it is prepared wiht other ingredients or is a brand different than the one they are used to.  There is a bit more to it than just texture.  Some los have an issue with over stuffing/drooling, as they undersensitive or hyposensitive with regards to the sensory input.  And of course, I also already mentioned thelow tone, and that is a sensory issue as well.  

One of the books is on hold for me at the library.  I may get to it next week.  I think it is the one titled Child of mine.

I just looked in H's file, and I found a three page oral motor program from the ot.  send me a note if you want me to get a copy to you.  XXXXXXXXXXX

  

[EloysH]

Kirry,   hope things are continuing to improve    Just taking a stab at your milk/formula question....  I think he is old enough to drop the bottle and replace with solids, but I be scared to replace it with a breakfast that contains dairy (after what we have just been through with Kai screaming at night).

K's eating is getting steadily better, I am finding now that we are in our second week of sttn he seems to be in a better mood to eat.  Maybe his tummy isn't troubling him since now he is stricly dairy/soy/wheat free and only on 1 table spoon of high sals again, and his reflux smyptoms have altogether disappeared.   AND he isn't teething.

[hrk]

More hugs to you Kirry.  I hope no news is good news.  I wouldn't be in a hurry to get to milk.  When I said milk, I was referring to H.  I would keep going with the formula you are using, until the dr says to give it a try (and you feel ready).  What I was meaning to suggest was half of the formula right away for thirst, and then half with breakfast a half hour to an hour later.  (You may have to start with more than half of the formula intially, since he is used to a lot, and then taper a bit.)  I think H wakes pretty hungry/thirsty, so it takes the edge off.  He wants nothing to do with food right away.  Just a suggestion, and it may not work at all.  XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Hugs to you, too Eloys.  I think scaling back was a good idea.  You may be able to pinpoint a bit more, or perhaps a combo of too many things flared things up.  Glad the teething is gone.  Super news on the 2 weeks!  Cheers!  XXXXXXXXXXX

[huntersmummyinoz]

thanks for sticking with me ladies he just cut a canine yesterday and has been losing the plot during the day so havent had much time to respond. surprising eating reasonably well, just not picking up any fruit or veggies of course and has been off his milk at breaky so go figure

ali, thanks. yep continuing with the mashed/chopped veggies in pasta and omelettes etc, he is happy eating them in that. and continuing to stick pieces on his plate that he doesnt touch. tho mind you, he has accepted 3 new foods this week (just not picking up fruit or veg), he is now eating grated cheese which is fabulous as now it wont be such a calcium concern to drop his breaky milk and he ate a couple of spoons of beetroot risotto last night, and he has had mashed stewed apple/pear/mango with df custard twice, that's huge! he is also drinking 'pear juice', really just 1tsp pear puree mixed in water but he has refused to drink this for ages. i'm hoping i can cut his breaky milk to half, and then replace his breaky milk with this 'juice' in a couple of weeks.

jean, thankyou so much for all the ideas and tips i havent seen other reflux symptoms but i guess it could be worse since he is teething so badly atm, and then yes maybe wanting to soothe with milk first up. i dont really like it, but i have stuck with tv at breaky all week and he hasnt asked for his milk til after he's eaten his cereal once, but i guess he is rather distracted by the tv. he's actually even eaten mini wheats twice again which he used to love but has refused for at least a month.
on the sensory stuff, we had a horrid time switching from neocate LCP (infant) to the toddler one, granted they do have a slightly diff taste but we still cant get him past 50/50 infant/toddler formula. and given that higher sals = higher flavour then maybe he is rejecting it based on that and prefering blander foods will def do some more reading. would love that oral motor program too please, it cant hurt.
i've actually changed approach a little too. in looking at the veggies he is eating (beans, sweet potato, zucchini, potato), they are all veggies that i started giving as puree, then mash, then chopped, then pieces. i'm thinking of trialling something similar for new tastes (eg. today he ate 1tsp mashed pumpkin, keep that up for a week to get him accepting the taste, then change the texture to chopped, etc). i'm still offering pieces on his tray for whatever it is worth. but i'm hoping this may get him to actually eat something if he does pick it up as he will already recognise the flavour. i dont know, maybe i'm clutching at straws

elo, thanks hun. he has rice milk on cereal atm. the first step of trialling cows milk would be on his cereal. i dont think i'm ready to touch that trial til all his canines are out, that way it should be a little clearer as to whether or not he is reacting (ie. nw, sore tummy, etc). he has been eating grated cheese for the last week, no reaction yet this time. 2/3mths ago he came out in a rash on day 5 and mucousy poop on day 6... wow, cant believe how much you had to scale back on sals for kai. was he on unlimited highs before??

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hon,

I can assure you it will pass! We have just been there with our 16 month old. If you look down the posts you will find several of mine if you would like to read what worked for us, but mainly you will have to wait out the teething. Our DS had 3 molars cutting when all of it started, so there you go  . Rest assured he won't starve  . When I chilled out about it, he did so I think that's really important.

(x)

[huntersmummyinoz]

thanks sammysmommy. did u always put an accepted food on the plate with new foods, or just all new things to get him eating? i am so over teething, cant wait for these next 3 canines to be out so we can have a break for a few mths!

[EloysH]

Sounds like you are making good progress despite how unsettled he is during the day!

Kais molars are on the way we can feel a lump!

wow, cant believe how much you had to scale back on sals for kai. was he on unlimited highs before?

Probably an over reaction.  Naturopath has suggested its probably the dairy based on his IGE test results back at 10 months old and to bring him back to his previous level of sals as soon as his runny nose is gone. Will have a good idea as to the cause of the NW's after that trial since he will be dairy free.  Apparantly the reason for no mucus poos on dairy is tha the dose of dairy was not enough to irritate his gut, but is enoguh to irritate the nervous system - hence NW'ing. That's the theory anyway.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hon,

I stuck with all the things I knew he liked so that I could be sure he didn't just dislike the taste. I think the time for new foods is when things are more settled IMHO.

xxx.

[Sam-n-Max's Mommy]

Hi again, ladies.  Kirry - I too believe that the teething is a major, major factor.  S is eating considerably better the past few days and when I caught a glimpse into his mouth, I saw that the last molar was at the surface.  He is cutting canines too -- while he has crying outbursts during the day (due to pain here and there I think), it hasn't been affecting his eating quite as badly. 

One thing I am doing that may be working -- I had found that he had fallen into a routine where he would eat the same exact meal for lunch and dinner every day.  Breakfast is a little easier because he eats more of a variety there.  For example, at lunch he always has yogurt.  So I started moving it around a little.  Sometimes he'll have it for lunch, sometimes for breakfast, sometimes for dinner, sometimes not at all. My theory is that he was expecting the yogurt at lunch every day so he was unwilling to have anything other than that.  I would still give him something he likes and something (or things) new, but I think maybe varying what meals the favorites are served at can help.  It can all backfire in my face and he can stop eating today, so I don't know.

It is great that he has accepted some new foods! Doesn't it feel like a major accomplishment?  The happiness I feel when he tries something new is probably not normal.

[huntersmummyinoz]

Apparantly the reason for no mucus poos on dairy is tha the dose of dairy was not enough to irritate his gut, but is enoguh to irritate the nervous system - hence NW'ing. That's the theory anyway.

very interesting! he had another 3.5hr NW last night! he called out after 45 mins so i gave nurofin and left, but then it took him that long to fall asleep afterwards!! sounds a bit too much to be just teeth i am Qing the cheese but am hesitant to stop it just yet as i fully expect him to refuse it again if i didnt give it for a week. did kai have scratch tests too or just IGE? i only got the scratch tests done for K.

samsmommy, great idea to switch things up a bit. i have wondered if he has been hanging out for his yoghurt and cheese at afternoon tea, so will try moving it around a bit too.

The happiness I feel when he tries something new is probably not normal.

OMG i so know how you feel!!

[huntersmummyinoz]

had dietician appt today. he has spiked on his growth curve (from 90th up to 95th percentile), so part of the prob is def self-regulating his food intake since he isnt growing so much. she suggested either dropping breaky milk or giving only half cup milk at breaky and lunch in order to switch preference to solids rather than milk. will wait another week or two to make sure cheese is ok tho as otherwise have to look at supplements. and she didnt really have much else to offer in way of advice other than to keep putting the food on his plate and hopefully one day he will pick it up she said he actually eats much more variety than most little ones she sees. just wish he would pick up some fruit or a vegetable!

[Edesanja]

My theory is that he was expecting the yogurt at lunch every day so he was unwilling to have anything other than that.

I am just starting to doing something similar. I find that if either rice or pasta are on the menu, he will NOT eat anything else. He just wants more and more. So I was thinking of doing dinner in 2 parts if we're having rice or pasta and offering those after he's eaten whatever else it is we're having. He will eat other things some of the time, but not at all if his favourites are involved.
I'm worried though that he'll just start hanging out for the 2nd part of dinner...

will wait another week or two to make sure cheese is ok tho as otherwise have to look at supplements.

Has anyone (dietician etc) said anything about supplements? I'm still doing my best to get his calcium in via food until we can try dairy again (we have had SIX weeks and counting of J being unwell in one way shape or form ) but doing a quick read about calcium supplements got me a bit weary about going down that route...

[EloysH]

Jenny, since we pulled Kai off all daiy except butter and his sals are not umlimited highs anymore I've requested a calcium supplement from my natruopath.  I have a dietician appointment in two weeks too, will see which brand they offer. What have you read Jenny?  The naturopath reckons they will do no harm, and as long as its not a calcium cabonate based supplement and is "balanced" then it will be absorbed well.   I will PM you the ones she recommends for us in Australia if you like.  Its hard as many have spinach and things that Kai can't eat in them!