8 mo having horrible nws and naps are not good either - what is going on?

[*Kara*]

hmmm, I am wondering if he is like my DD and needs a bit longer of an A time before bed to settle well??

We have been doing a 4 hr A to BT since she was about 6 months old... granted she would CRASH for that first month or so, but at 8 months it was totally fine and she would settle quickly and sleep through...

Maybe stick to a 3 hr A first thing, then push to 3 hr 15/30 for the second?  Might extend that second nap.  It looks like an UT nap to me... taking forever to settle and then waking at 45 with no ability to return to sleep.

As long as you get a 90 min PM nap, I would push to 3 hr 30 min for the last A and see how it goes.

[sherry lynn]

I second the idea of keeping the first A time around 3 hours. See what nap you get, and then I am almost 100% sure that the second A time needs to be pushed forward. EVEN when he is showing tired signs. Sometimes the body just gets so used to being tired at a certain clock or A time. His seems to be at about 3 hours. I wouldn't push out the morning because of the school run.
For a spirited LO the nap length is going to change. That's just the way they are. There's nothing you can do about it. So, I wouldn't stress too much about it. By guess is things honestly won't even out (or calm down) for you until you get to one nap.
So just try to set good A times and then let your LO take it from there.

My guess is honestly that your Nights are a combo of your A times being a little too low during the day and a little bit of AP. Again, no judgement. You know I was feeding E at night until he weaned himself from the breast. I did get more strict at the end though and limit it to one feed.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Annette for digging that up. How do you guys have the patients to go through all the old threads. Everytime I try I find it so frustration   That is the exactly how I still feel   That's just been my experience with little ones when their sleep gets all wonky around this age. It's like they jump from struggling to drop the catnap to needing to cut a nap within a months time.

[shresmummy]

Aaurgg! Another short pm nap day. He was so tired and rubbing his face off by the 3 hr mark but I pushed him to 3h10 min A time before the pm nap cos he had taken a good 1.5 hr am nap. He settled faster for the pm nap but only slept 35 mins! I don't get it. I put him down at 3 hrs he does a 45 min nap. But at 3hr10 he did a 30 min nap. He wke up a bit upset but got happy soon nd refused to resettle despite a feed.

Wake 5:30 am!!
Nap 8:30-10
Nap 1:15-1:43

I desperately tried to ap a cn at 4:30. He screamed the place down but I managed to get him to sleep in my arms for about 5-10 mins.

Then I did bt at 6:10 he did fuss a bit I am not sure if he was ot but finally settled at 6:30. Since then he slept till 8 had a brief wake settled by 8:10 and has been sleeping it's nearly 10pm.

I am not sure how to get at least a 1hr pm nap because I think he still ends up ot by bt. But his nights seem better for it don't they?

Sherry, you're absolutely right I think the night issues are due to a bit of ap but I do only feed him about 3 times. 9:30/10, 2-3:30, then around 4:30/5 am. But it's probably, too many!!! But I am soooo tired I think I do it on autopilot! Half the time I don't even remember how he ended up on my lap! The rest of the time I just pat or a quick 2 min cuddle and he seems to settle.

But tonight being better makes me think his issues are primarily A time related isn't it? But what to try next? I had to turn on the vacuum and rock him for that 10 min cn. He refuses it most days. But today I think he had to have it.

The only other thing I can think of is to not let him sleep past say 1h10 mins or so for the am nap. Then stick to 3hrs A time and hope he has a good pm nap?

Playing around with that 2nd A time doesn't seem to make any difference?

[shresmummy]

Hi Jane, I do have a fan on in the room when he takes naps and at night. It makes for great white noise and with the door closed drowns out any noise that dd makes!

I give up! We had such a good nap day Today out of the blue! but our night has been crap!

Wake 6
Nap 9:15-10:35 (took him in at 9 but he was on/off until 9:15)
Nap 1:25-2:50!!! (huh? Funnily A time was less than 3 hrs again for him to have a better nap)

I did bt at 6. He fell asleep by 6:15 but we have had like 4 nws and I had to feed at 9:15.

Is this an A time issue or teething? He has been fussy with solids but not bf. I thought it was the other way around?

Also wondering if increasing the Am A time inadvertenly because he was on/off sleeping till 9:15 helped with the pm nap? Or it may all just be a one off! Or he was more tired due to teething?

Also last night h decided he wanted to chat at about 11:30-12:15! Sigh! I am not sure where to from here.

[annette.xx]

Hey Priya

not got long so im going to make this really quick but had to post my happenings...

DH is on hols so with days out etc have been a bit late at getting naps in and have settled into this routine at the moment...

3hrs 15/3hrs 15/3hrs 15 - a bit different from the old 2,3,4!!! this is with 1.5hr naps - yesterday I let him nap 2 hrs first nap and he needed 3.5hrs A and still wasnt that tired so im always capping at 1.5hrs now!

its around this age they drop from 14.5/15hrs sleep needs to just 14hrs - I thought this happened around 9 months but obviously has happened sooner for me (and I think you!)

so if you keep that first A at 3hrs I think you need to push second A to 3hrs 30 then last A will stay at 3hrs 15...

last 4 nights no NW before 1am... first time in a while...

oh and tired signs were still coming with force at less than 3hrs A time I just had to let it go past cos of outings etc on first day and then realised the longer A suited him better...

sounds like you are getting a good handle on things but I reckon this could help you so throwing it out there...and you know me - im the worst for pushing the A I always stay with the lowest A possible but this all happened by default so now I know I wasnt pushing him hard enough!

Annette.xx

[*Kara*]

The total number of sleep hours can really vary at this age actually, given different levels of activity that are all normal for babies... some are crawling and wearing themselves out while others are still sitting in the middle of the room happily...

"Normal" is anywhere from 13-15 hrs per 24...

[shresmummy]

Hey Annette that sounds great!! I wish I could go to a lovely routine like that and how I long for just one nighton no early nws!!

We had another good nap day but a bad start to the night that was with pain meds. He just seems to nap better for the pm nap with less than 3 hrs A time. Least that's what he did the past 2 days.

Today he did wake 6 am
Nap 8:55-10;35 and I had to wake him!
Nap 1:25-2:35!

Bedtime I took him in at 5:45 he settled perfectly and was asleep by 5:55.

But then the early nws started! He woke at 6:30. Resettled then again at 6:45. Then 7:40, 8:30 then he slept till 10:20 i just fed him and he went back to sleep ok.

What is the deal with the night? It's driving me crazy not to mention disrupting dd's bt routine and dinner.

Should I try messing with the A times given that the past few days naps have been decent? I'd be afraid to! But do you reckon that has anything to do with the nws?

[shresmummy]

Oh, I forgot to ask you Annette how long have you been doing this routine for? I think your lo is a few weeks younger than mine too right?

Did you just one day decide to go 3h15? Or did it happen on it's own?

Wish I knew how to do this A time increase thing properly!

[*Kara*]

I really think you are going to have to go with a longer day than 12 hours TBH.  I would push him a bit longer before BT to see if that stops the NW... they sound UT to me.

[mjohnson33]

I feel for you shresmummy, I know you have been dealing with this forever!!!   I dont really have any advice for you.  I know my DS was having a ton of NW's and he just recently started sleeping better.  We changed his formula b/c he was constipated and it seems to be helping.  He was never a bad napper though like yours unfortunately.  I just wanted to send some hugs your way!!! I really hope you can get this figured out so you can get some sleep.  Do you think that he possibly goes down to early?? I couldnt imagine putting DS down at 6pm for sleep.  I realize that you have to based on his wake in the am but I wonder if you could tweak it to where it is re-vamped?? BIG HUGS!!!!

[annette.xx]

Hey Priya

yeah I pretty much just went straight to 3hrs 15!!! I have figured with my DS as well that he has different A time needs depending on nap lengths - for example if he has a long nap over 1.5hrs then he needs more than the 3hrs 15 A time - especially bedtime!

I think he needs just one long nap a day really as I do find he sleeps best at night when one has been shorter but I havent figured yet how to make this the routine!!

for me it seems to be that a nap of 1hr to 1hr 30 needs 3hr 15 A time anything shorter needs 3hrs and anything longer needs 3hrs 30...

the trick to good nights from my observations seems to be starting with full 3hr 15 A time then playing around slightly with A times to get the balance right - I know I complicate things too much but if it works then im fine with it!!!

Annette.xx

[j.and.e]

i've also had sudden jump in a times. 2day did 3hr, 3.5hr, 3:15. Gd naps, but lots of early (pre 9pm Nws). Teething atm, so hard to tell if its that. Xx

[mjohnson33]

My DS has also jumped in his A times!! He can go up to almost 4 hours at times.  He really keeps me on my toes as no 2 days are the same.    I had two picture perfect days the last 2 days and he only had one NW on MOnday night then last night was back to bad.  Its so weird and I really wish I could pinpoint whats going on with him.  Some nights he sleeps so good and is very restful then others he is extremely floppy and moves all over the crib. Last night he kept rolling over onto his back and thrashing and waking himself up so something was bothering him. My NWs are usually after about 12:30-1am

[j.and.e]

is hard 2say as no2days are the same! I wonder at UT for our Nws. What shud 8.5 mo do for sleep? Xx

[mjohnson33]

So, I just realized my little guy had a bad night b/c his belly hurt and he needed to poop!! Seems like those days ARE the same.  If he has a bad night, he has a bad poopy day the next day. I think at 8.5 months they need around 13.5 hours of sleep but mine does best with 11 night hours and 4 day....he needs alot of day sleep and if his A time is just right we usually have a pretty decent night.