Anyone Want To Talk About The 2-1 Transition? Thread #20

[*Kara*]

gwcarnes - I think that her A time to BT was too much yesterday and that would have caused the OT at BT - you really want to shoot for no more than 5 hours A to BT at first with the transition

I am interested to see how she does tonight - her naps were good and that A time to BT looks great!

[katiepierce]

Hi ladies,

Well we've been walking the bumpy 2:1 road for about a month now but today my Henry decided to throw me in the deep end by completely refusing any kind of morning nap! Eek!

I knew it was going to be a dodgy day as he woke at 7.10 instead of his most recent 5.30/6 (obv this is good!). He's been ill so think he was just catching up. He gave me tired signs at his usual nap time so I tried to put him up but he just chatted/shouted and then laughed at me when I tried to AP him  Left him for 45 mins 9.30-10.15 (this has been his usual capped am nap time) then got him up, no sleep had. He seemed totally fine so decided to do early lunch and just shoot for the one nap. He was asleep for 11.20 and slept for nearly 2.5 hours. Phew!

So EASY looks like --

7.10 - wake

11.20 - 1.50 nap

So bedtime??? Think I'm going to go for 6/6.15...I am very scared of early bedtime though. But maybe scared of OT just a little bit more! 

So do you think I did the right thing today? I expect tomorrow will be an early start again so we will be back to our 2 naps and long day. Just had a thought today will only be 11 hours long...is that bad? Maybe he wont have had enough A to be tired enough tonight? It will be approx 4.25 each side of the nap...obv this isnt sustainable in the long term. Will it maybe go 1 nap day, 2 nap day, 1 nap day for a while? or does that just confuse LO? He's 11 months this week if that makes a difference!

Sorry so many questions! Have had a quick glance through some of the old posts...cant believe how long this transition seems to last...hats off to you all!

XX

[lily528]

Oh ladies my lil girl slept last night 6-8!!!! It's now 2pm and she has refused to nap all day!!!! Been trying since 12. Her fever has broke and I know she slept ridiculously last night but I mean she needs a nap even so. What do I do here?  She keeps falling asleep on me since being sick I really don't want this to become a habit. She fell asleep on me for a few mins but won't when I put her down. She's just walking around playing. I don't know if I should try again or not

ETA-  tried again got her asleep around 2:20 held her til 2:45 :/ put her down and this time she stayed asleep. But it's going on 3 so how long should i let her sleep.

[clairebear79]

welcome katie!  Yes sounds like you did the right thing for sure.  IIWM I'd probably go with a 6.30pm (ish) BT so he's had at least 4.5hrs A to BT, but you may have to play it by ear & watch him for tired cues.

Melissa - wow what a night!  But not for the best of reasons of course.  Not sure if this will have reached you in time.  IIWM I'd probably allow an hour & then shoot for regular BT?

Ladies we are all in a mess & I cannot fathom why.  My boy seems to have an aversion to sleep.  For a full week we've had 10hr nights.  In the last 3 days I've pulled the nap earlier to 11am, capped it at 2hrs & been doing 6pm EBT's & we're getting 11.25hr nights now (phew), but this still means almost 6hrs A to naptime.  Today he did an OT nap of 1h 40mins.
 
Do you think this is still all down to being OT?  Or maybe his daytime sleep needs have dropped even less than 2hrs now???  Or is he trying to tell me he needs 6hrs A before his nap???  In which case I really do need to get the nap shifted later don't I?  Feel like we're in a catch 22 though - pushing nap later makes him OT which makes him wake early which makes him need to nap early & go to bed early & we're stuck.  Any suggestions ladies - we are really going round in circles & Oliver will have started to drop this nap before I even get him in a decent routine at this rate!

[*Kara*]

I would try to do this Claire -
Wake - 5.5 to nap, capped at 1 hr 45mins and then 5-5.5 hrs to BT.  I think that the shorter nap would make him sleepy for a 5 hr A to BT but you just never know!

My other thought - molars?  I get 1 hr 40 min naps with teething pain (now that I have pulled my head from my arse this week LOL).

[clairebear79]

Kara - WRT teething, he's already got his 1 year molars & his canines (eye teeth) so only the 2 year molars left to come.  He's been an early teether with all the rest, so I guess its possible he could be getting his 2 year molars already, but I'm not seeing any of the usual signs atm.

WRT nap capping - I am sooo scared to cap it further just yet!!!  But I have a sneaking suspicion this may be what's needed.    I am scared to extend his A time to BT, b/c last week we were doing 5.5hrs A to BT after a 2hr nap & he only did 10hr nights & since I shortened it again & brought BT earlier, we are getting longer nights. 

I'm so gutted that only 2 weeks ago nap was at around midday & now its an hour earlier again.  Do you think I maybe need to push the nap out first, before capping it any further???  Am thinkig I should probably give the 2hr nap at least a week to see if it makes any difference.

[j.and.e]

Hi ladies, how far did u cut am nap b4 doing 1nap? We did up 6.15 nap1 9.40-10.10 (cappd) nap2 1.50-3.30 (i woke to preserve bt.) asleep 7.40pm. I cant get pm nap earlier as he wont go. I think i might need to cut am nap bit more so he can have a longer pm nap and go2 bed at a reasonable time. He will do his am nap earlier (but i want to discourage EWs). What wud u suggest? 20min am nap and 3hr A? Xx

[lily528]

Omg she didn't even do an hr now it's 7:35 and I've been attempting BT got a good 40 mins she wants nothing to do with it. Refused dinner but now keeps asking to eat!!!  I'm going crazy here. I could cry. Just totally cry. Im exhausted and she is just being so stubborn about everything.

[gwcarnes]

Oh Lily so sorry to hear what a bad day you are having.  When they are sick it's sooooooo hard!  Mine usually want to sleep all the time when they are sick though.  Well we had a pretty good night here last night but EW AGAIN at 5:40!  What should I do?  Here's yesterdays EAS again.

5:40-6:20 cried on and off then back to sleep up for good at 7:00.
9:00-9:30-S
12:00-2:15-S   sister woke her AGAIN! 
7:00-BT

Today EAS
5:40- up
9:45-10:15-S (sitter didn't put her down at 9:30 like I wanted her to)
12:30-3:00-S (I had to wake her)
7:00-BT ( she had just had 4 hrs. of A time but she seemed sleepy)
What can I do about the EW?  Should I just keep her schedule the same and hope it get better in the next few weeks?

[*Kara*]

gwcarnes - you really need to keep that first nap out at least 4 hours from wake time or the EW will continue. LO gets up early knowing that they can use that first nap to finish their night sleep, KWIM?  I had the same problem with the short nights/EW and I am lucky that my LO is pretty good with OT - I just pushed her to 11am regardless of her wake time and she adjusted after a few days...

Melissa - ugh.  I have no good advice other than to feed her and put her back to bed... and then grab the bottle of wine for yourself

Claire - Given how O can get so OT so quickly, you might be best to do just what you think - push the nap back out to midday slowly and see if he keeps it at 2 hours (cap if needed) and do a set BT based on wake time from his nap.  That wee man is a complex little being!

Well, I decided stupidly that DD wasn't doing too bad with teeth today so I didn't med her before her nap - 1 hr 50 mins and not the best nap for sure.  Ugh.  Meds at BT and she managed a 5 hr 40 min A time on that crap nap too - she did go down fairly easily so she wasn't quite to the dreaded land of OT yet - PHEW!

[clairebear79]

gwcarnes - agree with Kara to a degree on pushing out the AM nap but IMO doing at least 4hrs A is only necessary if you are doing long AM/short PM.  If you are going down the route of short AM/long PM, the first A time should always be fairly short, bc it will be followed by a short nap.D oing 4hrs A followed by 15min nap is only likely to cause OT.  However.....I do think that at her age, the nap should be no earlier than 9.30, no matter when she wakes, b/c as Kara says, doing the nap too early will only encourage EW.  This may mean she is doing almost 4hrs to nap, but this is a temporary measure, which combined with capping the AM nap & giving enough A time to BT should combat the EW.  If you are keeping with the 30min nap I would aim for something like:

WU ??
Nap:  9.30-10
Nap: 12.30-2.30 (wake to preserve BT)
BT:   7pm

If the 30min nap seems too long then I would cut the AM nap a bit more - try 20mins & do it from 9.40-10.  Then do PM nap 12.30-2.30.  I think 4hrs A to BT probably isn't long enough after a 2.5hr nap so I wouldn't be surprised if she wakes early again tomorrow.   

Ladies we got a 12hr night.  SUCH a relief.  He woke up happy today so I know he is much better rested.  Now I'm not sure if to keep nap at 11am or push to 11.30am which is 5.5hrs.  Am thinking I'll stay with it at 11 for a few more days & just see if we get a couple more good nights before pushing anything out.  Do you think I should maybe push BT out a bit though.  Am scared of allowing a 2hr nap 11-1 & doing 6pm BT incase he only does 11hrs again as this will put us right back at a 5am WU again.  Any thoughts?

[katiepierce]

Claire - I would dearly love to have some advice to give but only have hugs I'm afraid! We've only just jumped aboard this train and I'm confused already  Yey for the great night though!

Gwcarnes - totally agree with the advice already given, we're in a very simular boat and I never allow a nap before 9.30 now, ever. In this house it just reinforces the EW. I missed how old your LO is? Mine is 11 months this week and our routine was almost exactly what claire suggested for you until yesterday when he woke later and refused am nap!

J and E - my LO couldnt handle 3hr A on 20 mins, def only 2.5 tops. I guess you'll have to see what he'd go for though.

Well here we had a 13 hour night!! 6.10-7.15!!! Well actually he did have a NF at 4 as he was ill last week and is still refusing to eat anything (thats a whole other post  ) but it only took 20 mins so still nearly 13 hours. I could not believe it this morning, hubby was nearly late for woke as we didnt get our usually wake up call! Henry has never ever tacked on sleep before so I was sure of an early start...am now a ebt convert!

I intended to get H to bed again today at 11.30 but we got held up so he was asleep by 11.45 instead. I know that 4.5 A is what we are aiming for but up until he sprung one nap on me yesterday he'd only been doing 4 max, yesterday was 4.25 so didnt want to increase again just yet but just couldnt get home in time so what will be will be i guess. Fingers crossed I havent pushed him too far and we get a good nap.

Hope everyone else gets a good'un too!

XXX

[clairebear79]

good luck katiepierce!

j.and.e - my LO is just the same & can go around 4hrs A after a 30 min nap.  Though my DS is 15.5 months now.  How old is your LO???  I found that he can do just over 3hrs A on a 15min nap, but like I say he's a little older, so if your LO is a bit younger then 3hrs would probably be fine after a 20min nap.  Lots of mums here drop to 1 nap when AM nap gets to 20-30 mins, but IME I would hang onto that AM nap for as long as you possibly can b/c the younger they are, the more likely they are to get OT through this transition.

[j.and.e]

Thanks v much ladies! Today he was up at 6.10 (after 10.5hr nite, but then nodded off in bed w. me for bout 20mins until Ds1 woke us at 7.30. Today have tried Nap1 10-10.20 and has gone down for nap2 at 1pm w. no fuss. Lets see how he does! Baby E will be 1yo on Xmas eve, so v young 4 1nap. Wud b nice not 2worry bout 2naps (especially as we have playgroups etc for DS1) however he has always been a gd napper but prone to OT NWs... I just dont like a late BT, as Ds1 is a non napping 2yo and i'm knackerd by 7.30! Tks again! Xx

[AbNikki]

Hello ladies here was our EAS yesterday.

5:30 started whinning up for good at 6:20
10:15-10:45 A  woke her
12:00E
1:00-3:45 A she woke up by herself
7:45 bed

She slept from 7:45 to 5:30 with only one cry out in the middle of  the night which tells me she has been UT at night because she was waking 3 or 4 times at night and staying awake.  Last night she never really woke up in the night just one of those small cries she lets out at night.  But we still have the EW at 5:30.  What can we do?

This looks like a doable schedule for us.  YDS has been refusing am nap about once a week.  Will try it out and let you know.