Still having NWs at 18 months.

[clairebear79]

Hi Jem.  See how she goes over the next few days - sometimes new routines can take several weeks to settle into place.

She is still so young to have a short nap of 1.5hrs or less.  If she were doing a 12hr night she'd be fine, but she's not.  And IMHO she sounds OT.  She is doing a long A time both before and after her nap & while yes faffing around at BT can be UT, I'd doubt that with 6hrs AM plus 1h 10 nap she'd need almost 6hrs A time to bed.  IME taking a long time to settle at bedtime can also be OT, esp when they are 'wired' or 'loop the loop'.  When they get like this they don't seem tired at all but will likely be quite excitable & bouncing around a lot.  When you say she was asking for all her toys I suspect she may have already been OT at this point.  All the repeated NW look very much like that to me too.  Sorry to contradict, just my gut feeling on this.

IIWM I would do like KayDee suggests i.e. set nap (for consistency) - at this age it does tend to work better than varying everything day to day, but I would really honestly be more inclined to try something more like a 12.30pm nap for 2hrs & 7.30pm BT & see what wakeup you get.  I think with a later & longer nap she may surprise you & pull a longer night. Its exactly what my DS was doing at this age (til we hit 18 months regression).  It was only post 18 months I had to push the nap to 1pm & at 20 months start capping below 2hrs (just by 15mins).  Of course they are all different - just my 2p worth.x

[Kay Dee]

I know Claire, I'd be saying the same thing but having followed Jem for a while now her DD never slept through until she went to a shorter nap at 14months and instantly her sleep improved. She really does seem to do better on long A times and her night's sleep is generally more unsettled with a longer nap. She seems to do what my DS did and NW rather than EW when UT. I really think she's one who needs a lot less than 'average'. TBH, I hope I'm proved wrong!! It's a tough balance when if they need so little at such a young age.

[Jem88]

Last night was a much better night

She was asleep for 7.50pm, woke at 9.00pm where she was rolling around her cot crying, so i gave nurofen as i think she could be teething but i'm not 100% as she now has 16 teeth apart from a top molar which i think could be coming through. She then cried out at 10.15pm but i didn't need to go in and she then slept til 7.00am

Will do the same routine today. x

[Kay Dee]

Brilliant Jem! Stick with it so x

[Jem88]

So last night i put her down at 7.15pm and it took her until 7.50pm to fall asleep and that was after a 1hr 10min nap. She had a 1hr 15min nap today and i put her down at 7.15pm again in the hope that she'd maybe fall asleep earlier, but nope it's now 8.05pm and she's still chatting and shouting for toys again, i went in 10mins ago to see if she'd fall asleep if i stood with my hand on her but she just started giggling her head off!

-
She finally fell asleep at 8.20pm. Today has been:

7.00am - up.
12.40pm - nap.
1.55pm - up. 1hr 15mins.
8.20pm - bed.

[clairebear79]

Jem what is her mood like in the day?  Does she look/seem tired?  Happy or crabby/tantrums/clingy?  This is often the best indicator of whether she's getting enough sleep, although temperament can play a part too as 'angel/textbook' babes will always handle OT much better than 'touchy/spiriteds'.

I still think it looks like she is OT.  That is an awfully long time to settle after having such a short nap & its not like she is doing a short A time in the AM either.  And her night last night wasn't that long at just 11hrs.  My experience is that toddlers behave very differently to babies when OT.  Babies will scream & scream whereas toddlers will bounce & shout & shriek & appear like they aren't tired at all.  

I'm not sure you agree tho

[Jem88]

She's fine on a morning and tends to get a little grumpy before her nap but to be honest if i didn't clock watch i wouldn't be able to tell when she needed a nap etc as she seems totally fine but goes to sleep within 5-10mins when i put her down for a nap. The same at bedtime she doesn't yawn, rub her eyes etc.

Would a long A to nap and then another long A to bed make her OT after a while? She's totally fine after a 1hr nap, not grumpy at all. Would it mess her night up if she had a short say 5hr before nap, 1hr 10-15min nap and then a long a to bed? x

[Kay Dee]

Would a long A to nap and then another long A to bed make her OT after a while?

It will if it's more A time than she's able for. But to me it seems she does better on long A times. What's your feeling on it

[clairebear79]

Yes 2x long A's with a short nap could definitely make her OT, esp at a young age.  TBH tho, I've found with my DS he's better having the longer A in the morning & a shorter A time to BT, esp once the nap starts being capped.

If she is happy, not grumpy in the slightest after being woken & her mood seems fine & you don't feel she is OT, just stay with it.  I've only just jumped in here at a late stage warning of OT & like Kaydee says, maybe she is just LSN.  If she starts to wake repeatedly after bedtime or gets very tired out/upset during the day & looks tired, or if her nights shorten again I would reconsider & try extending the nap again.  Its only because I've been in a very similar place to you, & started capping at quite a young age & it turned out I didn't need to & we hung onto the 2hr nap for 5 months longer.x

[Jem88]

I'm not sure, i did think she maybe wasn't tired but we've had our 1st wake up after 40mins. I'll see how the rest of the night goes. x

[Jem88]

I'm not really sure if she's OT or UT as she woke after 40mins but then slept until 7.30am, i think if she was OT she'd wake alot?

Will keep with the routine today, still do nap at 12.40am and have her in bed for 7.30pm & see what time she settles. x

[Kay Dee]

That's another good night! Definitely an improvement although those evening wake-ups do sound a touch OT. If they're still happening after a few days we can see what else to tweak. Her A times will end up being shorter today due to the later WU so it will be interesting to see if that helps or not.

x

[Jem88]

Hmm, last night wasn't too great but i think she was OT. She was alseep for her nap at 12.45pm and i heard her mumble something at 1.45 but she was then silent until 1.55 when i went up but she was standing up so i think she'd probably woke at 1.45pm. I then had her in bed for 7.20pm but she chatted and was asking for toys again until, she finally fell asleep at 8.40pm.

She then woke at 10.20pm 12.20am 4.10am then up for the day at 7.55am.

I just can't seem to get her to go to sleep any earlier than she has been the past few nights she's been having 6hr + A's before falling asleep.
x

[Kay Dee]

Sorry you had a bad night I'm wondering if her nap was shorter because she was up later yesterday morning so her morning A was shorter. And then a bit OT by bedtime? How would you feel about waking her at 7 every morning to keep things consistent while we figure this out

For today you may need to do nap & bedtime later as she was up later. But that depends on how tired she is after the unsettled night x

[Jem88]

I was thinking of doing her nap at 1.00pm, i know it's only going to be 5hrs but if i do it any later and she does another long A to bed she'll be awake past 9.

Before we started having nws again she was doing 5hr A before her nap, 1.5hr nap and then i was putting her into bed for 5hr 50min A and she would be asleep within 10mins having a 6hr A.

Should i maybe try the 5hr 50min A to bed again? tonight if i put her down for a 5hr A before nap? x