15 mo, never sttn *update-she did it!!*

[anna*]

Yaaay! Go Ev! (((hugs))) for the crying, I know that is so hard to listen to.

[C&B&E]

And again last night  .  Woke at 5.55am - but we are just getting her up at that time now rather than trying to resettle as she has been having 11.5 hours sleep so not technically an EW...can work on getting a later wake up later on!

The strange thing is that she goes down for her naps fine - just settles herself easily - so is it likely that this at BT is just OT?  Strangely even if she is OT for her nap she just conks out and short naps, but no crying like at BT  .  I just hate it as I feel so bad for her that she is crying for us/for cuddles - but whenever we give cuddles/go in and talk to her she just escalates and it takes even longer and ends up being more distressing for her  .  I either sit in her room or just outside the door and occasionally say her 'sleepy' phrase (or, more accurately her 'wind her up' phrase, which is what it feels like sometimes as it seems to make her worse  ).  The more I leave her to it the quicker she settles - but that feels more like CIO - so I end up speaking to her so that she constantly knows I am there, but then she goes crazy again  .  Any thoughts on how I can do it differently, please? 

[Truly Blessed]

And again last night  .

Awesome Claire, so glad there has been some improvement.. Trying to resettling at 11.5 hours would be a waste of time for most of us I think Hun.

The strange thing is that she goes down for her naps fine - just settles herself easily - so is it likely that this at BT is just OT? 

I hear this a lot Claire, and I think it probably is OT for most, but I guess the fact that they're at the end of the day and all the OS that brings as well (often) could be relevant. Also it seems to me that they're is often an anticipatory problem at BT, as in the LO anticipates the frustration/tiredness they often feel and so the cycle goes on, does that make sense

I just hate it as I feel so bad for her that she is crying for us/for cuddles - but whenever we give cuddles/go in and talk to her she just escalates and it takes even longer and ends up being more distressing for her  .  I either sit in her room or just outside the door and occasionally say her 'sleepy' phrase (or, more accurately her 'wind her up' phrase, which is what it feels like sometimes as it seems to make her worse  ).  The more I leave her to it the quicker she settles - but that feels more like CIO - so I end up speaking to her so that she constantly knows I am there, but then she goes crazy again  .  Any thoughts on how I can do it differently, please?

This sounds to me like she has trouble settling so she is asking for help, but she is a 'Spirited' LO therefore she actually ultimately finds it easier to settle without stimulation. I'm reading between the lines here Hun, and I know you know her well so please correct me if I'm wrong. IIWM I would be in the room at the moment, away from her but where she can still see you if she chooses. But, I would probably go with the theory that because intervention makes her more upset, 'knowing' that your there, is the 'happy medium' and the best way forward. I would maybe 'Sssh' occasionally if my heart couldn't take the silence. It's the same as doing any sleep training really, your LO is screaming at you, but you 'know' that what you're doing is for the best. Don't feel guilty Hun. You have been going through this forever and I am pretty sure that you now know in your gut what to do to help her most.

Out of interest has she ever responded to white noise or music well  I'm wondering if it may help her calm down  .

I hope this helps in some way.

(Hugs)

Vicki.x.

[kayra]

I was thinking if you could maybe just be singing slightly by her door, so it's not a sound that comes and goes like when you say her sleepy phrase, but just a constant but not very loud song?

[*Becky*]

I just hate it as I feel so bad for her that she is crying for us/for cuddles - but whenever we give cuddles/go in and talk to her she just escalates and it takes even longer and ends up being more distressing for her  .

we have this problem too.....I have not figured something out yet either but I do get stressed that it feels to me like CC even though I know it isn't.
Funnily enough we get crying at naptime but not at BT even though we know she is OT probably for both but def at BT!

[C&B&E]

Thanks all 

kayra, she of partial to a bit of singing  and it is often how I settle her actually. You're right that it is less stop-start than talking and I'd not thought of that. Vicki, What you said was really helpful. she does have white noise but I think I will try making her up a cd of me singing (treat  ).

I settled her tonight with no real crying-put her in her bed, light off, and stroked her hair while I talked to her about what she had done today. Then I sat and sang for a few minutes and left the room. She was calm nearly the whole time and it has made me realise it is the transition between day and sleep time that she finds hard and it is specifically that that I need to help her with.

[kayra]

that's wonderful Claire! well done
Anna, love the new avatar, Audrey is just darling!

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Claire, how was last night 

Yes Anna I agree, what a angel face 

x.

[C&B&E]

She had a couple of nws early on in the evening (OT) and was up at 5 - so a 10 hour night  .  DH tried to settle her for almost an hour but got her up at 6.  But now it feels more like we're 'tweaking' things, rather than the whole sleep thing just being a total nightmare!!  so even though it's not great it feels more bearable! 

[Truly Blessed]

so even though it's not great it feels more bearable! 

This ^ only goes to show how bad things were before Honey, bless your heart, and lots of (Hugs)

x.

[Smurfette]

I just hate it as I feel so bad for her that she is crying for us/for cuddles - but whenever we give cuddles/go in and talk to her she just escalates and it takes even longer and ends up being more distressing for her  .  I either sit in her room or just outside the door and occasionally say her 'sleepy' phrase (or, more accurately her 'wind her up' phrase, which is what it feels like sometimes as it seems to make her worse  ).  The more I leave her to it the quicker she settles - but that feels more like CIO - so I end up speaking to her so that she constantly knows I am there, but then she goes crazy again  .  Any thoughts on how I can do it differently, please? 

Honestly, if she's settling better without you, then I would just stay out if it happens again. Listen to what she's telling you and go with your gut. If everytime you say anything to her, it winds her up, then why say anything?
That's not CIO, that's giving your child what she needs-the space to fall asleep.
Yes, she wants cuddles, but she also really needs sleep and it's in her best interest to sleep, not get more cuddles and therefore stay up longer, you know? Think about it later when she is crying for a cookie and wants it for breakfast- you wouldn't give it to her because it's not healthy for her, regardless of how much she cried for it. At this point, I see it the same way in this scenario- it's not healthy for her to be overtired.
She's not a newborn and it's not like you haven't tended to her needs. You have been there for her the whole time. You've been awesome and patient and so dedicated!! If the crying was escalating, then yes I would go back in, but if you say she settles faster without you, then I would give her that opportunity.
((hugs))

[C&B&E]

She settled tonight with NO crying - the first time I remember in her little life!!!!!!!!!!

I have ended up doing a backwards step in that for the past two nights I have done stories and then fed her in the dark.  She is still wide awake when she finished so it's hopefully not going to create a prop again  .  But I just talked to her quietly about her day again, stroked her hair, and sang a song and walked out  .  Honestly, it is such a huge relief. 

Thanks for the hand holding  .  she took a short nap again today, but things feel so much better overall.  I might start a new thread over the next couple of days to get some help with tweaking her routine, as this thread is feeling a bit of a hefty one after all this time !! 

[anna*]

Lovely, lovely update. Here's to peaceful bedtimes for E.

[kayra]

wohoo!!

[Smurfette]

Yeah!!!