Early AM crib partys are back

[Skadiver13]

Ok so yesterday was
W: 6:30 after apoping since 5:10
A: 10:10  was tired
W: 11:37??
S: 3:25
W: 4:09 but he woke himself up. OT or UT?
S 7:45 our fault lost track of time. Was shooting for 7:30
Woke 3:20 sleep 3:39
 Woke 5:22. Not crying rolling around gurggling. Finally resettled 5:45 and he woke 5 minutes later. Rocking him now.

Im so worn out.

[Ima shel Alon]

TBH, I am not sure... are you still feeding at the EW?
Even if it's not the same time every morning I would still try some sort of W2S. can you go into his room at around 3, stroke his cheek till he stirs and leave the room again? Maybe it will help him to start a new sleep cycle.

[Skadiver13]

Yes, the feeding I'm not so concerned about at this point it's the EW and then me having to rock him. He did it again last night woke at 5:20 I had to rock him to 6:30 to get a more resonable wake time. I put him down at an A of 3hrs 40 min and he still woke at 1hr 26min crying.

[Skadiver13]

Sorry meant to say once I get him from his nap he's happy and go lucky. It's just we were doing GREAT 2hr naps in the am and he was sleeping great with just the one wake up. But ever since his cold (he's better now) he's back to waking 3/4 for a feed then up for the day sometime between 5-6 but going to bed at 7:30 and with the feed it's not a 10.5hr night if he wakes earlier than 6:30. I don't mind the 6am but it's a short night for him, so I worry about OT. I'll keep the 3hr45min as I don't think he's OT?? Could OT cause the EW in the AM? He does go back to sleep fairly quickly if I pick him up and rock him but you can tell he's twitching and moving around so if I put him back down he'd wake up.

[Ima shel Alon]

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough with my question. I meant to ask if you feed him at the 5ish NW? Because if you do and there is the rocking as well after that, then I'd say that this is the problem, it sounds like it became a prop and he can't go back to sleep without it.
Would you want to work on weaning the feed and settling back to sleep with PD?

[Skadiver13]

Sorry no I never have fed at the early wakings. Only yhe nw of like 3:30/4. Like last night he woke @ 3 something so i fed then he went down (20min start to finish) then woke at 5:20 rolling around.  I resettle in the crib first. Took me about 20min (not crying just rolling around moaning, chatting). Then he woke like 5/10min later and I dont have the energy to go at it again and I'm deathly afraid of OT so thats when I rocked him. These EW'ings had gone away but now they're back.

[Ima shel Alon]

I would say that either the rocking has become a prop and he can't settle by himself or that he is UT - either that the first A needs to be longer or that the A before BT needs to be longer.

[Skadiver13]

Its just wierd that he can put himself to bed and for naps, and if he wakes briefly in the nigh, but this one waking in early am.. i guess i dont know how else to get him back to sleep. Last night was wierd too. I guess I'll try W2S im just so darn tired it's not exactly something im looking forward too. I need to stop this night feed, and change around his day feeds and i cant do both at the same time. I just need to suck it up.  Cfurrently his 1st A time is 345 second is 330/345 and last is 315 i dont know how to extend that last A with out making his day ?onger than it already is?

[Ima shel Alon]

Even 10min in the evening can make a difference.
Why can't you stop the NF and change day feeds at the same time? What do you mean by changing day feeds?

[Skadiver13]

I totally understand the A time  I just don't now how to do it as his day is already 13hrs with a 2hr nap and 45min nap (sometimes a 1.5hr nap in the AM) It was suggested that I drop from 4 bottles to 3 during the day as he is still refusing solids as he's not hungry enough. If I offer 2hrs after bottle he'll take but then it affects the next bottle. On top of that his 3rd bottle after his 2nd nap only leaves about 2.5hrs till the BT bottle and he's starting to have issues there.. It was suggested that  I not try and drop the NF and change his days around at the same time?

[Ima shel Alon]

Ok, I understand. I don't want to give contradicting advice, so just do as you planned. Maybe after you wean the NF then the EW is gone as well.
Why don't you use PD instead of rocking?

[Skadiver13]

thanks.. I don't do PD because he's not crying? I thought it didn't work if he wasn't crying?

[Ima shel Alon]

But then why are you rocking of there is no crying? Why don't you just leave him in his room? He might settle himself and even if not you could get some more rest yourself and for some babies even lying there awake but not being very active is a rest.

[Skadiver13]

I guess becuae I've left him before and he's up for an hour and then starts crying but by then it's 6 and he wont go back to sleep so then he's OT so I've just been trying to keep him from being OT.  So yesterday I went to do W2S at 3 but he was moving around laready and in a light sleep so I couldn't do it as he would have woken up? He ended up not waking till 5. From 5-5:30 I left him rolling around, he was trying to sleep but couldn't then he starting whining so I went in and shuh/pat and it took till about 5:50 for him to go to sleep. He woke after 5 minutes and so I did it again and he finally fell back asleep till 6:45 but with the NW it was only a 10hr15min night.  This was our day today.

W: 6:45
S:10:30
W:12:30 I had to wake him he was out cold.
S:4 (did a 3.5hr time to try and preserve BT)
W: He woke after 35min would would indicate OT but he didn't wake crying and was happy so I guess it was an UT nap.
S: 7:35 w/o much fuss he was tired.

So I'm trying to figure out that 2nd nap. He's doing a great 1st nap 1.40min to 2hrs on 3hrs45min A so I"ll keep that and I think he can do a 3hr45min 2nd A but then it's too close to BT? I've been doing a set BT of 7:30 regardless of when he wakes to try and preserve the night is that Ok?

We'll see what the night gives us.

[Skadiver13]

Ok so not too bad. He woke at 4am, shuffling around so i went in and did shush pat but tried to just put a hand on his bum for the past few minutes and he took about 10min and no crying to go bck to sleep. Woke at 5am same thing but was whining. So I went in and did the same thing took him 10min and he went back to sleep. He shifted and cried out a few times w/in the next 20min but never woke up. It's 6:52 and he's still sleeping I have to wake him at 7 as I need to feed him and go to work but that's progress I think?

BUT now that's woken at 7 can I still keep that bedtime of 7:30 or will I need to push that out to get a 13hr day? His day would look something like this?

W:7
S:10:45
W:12:45
S:4:30-5
BT:7:30

I don't think that's enough time to BT? I could do an UT nap at 4:15-4:45? If he'll go down for it? WWYD