Twins- habitual night waking

[katie80]

How did the night go?

From your EASs, it looks like the day is getting too long.  Some days they are likely ending up OT at BT, some days they may have just had too much day sleep.  They are doing well with the 3.5hr A time though, so that's great.

What if you tried something like this...
Wake 6:30am
Nap 1 10-11:30am
Nap 2 3-4pm
BT 7pm

If you get a random EW (like from teething, not several in a row which would indicate OT/UT), you could let the second nap go a bit longer again to make it to a better BT.  But, typically at this age, you'll be looking for about 2.5-3hr day sleep and 11-11.5hr night sleep.

What do you think?

[Beweakley]

Elijah slept really until 3:30.  He woke up talking and playing in his crib (didnt appear to be in any teething pain). He settled back down around 4:30.  Everett then woke at 5:00.  Yuck!  I got him to settle back down until 6:30 and that's when both boys woke again.

I think we can definitely try that schedule today.  So far we are on it exactly.  They had a good nap from 10-11:30 and are currently down for nap #2.  They're not fussy today (as much).  I'll let you know how it goes!

[katie80]

FX!

[Beweakley]

Well, per my DH's request Elijah's crib was moved back into their bedroom yesterday.  Naps went great, but then BT came and it was like the boys had never seen each other or shared a room. After they talked and laughed at each other both settled to sleep at 7:20.  Both slept sound until 3:40ish when Elijah woke for his nightly play.  I went in and waited on the floor until he really needed me before intervening.  About 30 minutes in to his play he had an audience of one standing in his adjoining crib watching.  Both struggled to go back to sleep at which point I woke DH to come help. After all why should he be left to slumber when no one else in the house can. Elijah settled back to sleep near 5:00 and Everett took until 5:30.  Then it was back awake at 6:30. I will give them one more night to see if the "new" of being in the same room has worn off. If tonight is bad then I only have one more option and that's to move both cribs upstairs where I can separate them and where i can sleep in one of the bedrooms too. Im also going to try WTS at 3:15 to see if that will help Elijah get through that slump.  I'm going to keep the same schedule you suggested today and maybe it will just need another couple days to adjust. 

Oh and yes I'm thoroughly frustrated with DH who still doesn't really get how bothersome this whole thing is.  His idea to solve the problem is just to let them sleep in the bed with me or be a prop for them.  I can't make him understand that one of the reasons they're struggling is because he's had a prop (either him, myself or my parents) this whole time.  I'm just frustrated this morning and need to vent a bit.  After waking him last night, DH might rethink things.  We'll see.

[katie80]

(((Hugs))) honey, vent away! I can't imagine how tough it is getting up with both of them night after night. It's so true that DHs often don't get it until they are the ones getting up too. Please keep sharing your feelings with him and getting him up to help when you need it. It's a lot to have to do on your own.

As for the routine and room sharing, you might have to give it more than 2 nights to see if it's working. I'd say up to a week or two, but I'm not the one there, so obviously do what you feel is best.

Keep up the good work, hon.

[Beweakley]

Well DH must have been feeling bad about his decision because he was very helpful around the house and with the boys yesterday.  He went on to say that if it continues we'll move a crib back into our room.  Only one night to change his behavior!  I wish it were that easy to change all negative behaviors!   

So yesterday was off, naturally, since the night had been so bad.  They woke at 6:30 and I thought we'd be on schedule all day, but they woke 15 minutes early from their first nap and only slept 30 minutes during their second nap (thanks daddy and uncle Daniel who were making too much noise in the garage).  Needless to say they had an  early BT to prevent more OT.  They went down at 6:35 and were asleep immediately.  No chit chat among cribs tonight.  I did WTS at 11:45 trying to get Elijah through the 12:15 time and it worked only for him to wake at 12:38.  Survival mode kicked in because I was exhausted too so I took Elijah upstairs and he and I slept in that bed. Everett slept sound until 5:30.  11 hours!  That's ideal.  Elijah slept pretty well too once he stopped playing in the bed beside me.  Not sure what time that was as I was nodding off myself.  That's not what I want but I had to get some rest.  I have another plan in mind involving putting a crib upstairs to have on standby as needed. 

So here's the plan for today. 

A 5:30
S 9:00
A 10:30
S 2:00
A 3:30
S 7:00

Of course if they wake early from naps I'll back that BT up. 

It's so nice being able to bounce these ideas and thoughts off someone else that's been there recently or is there now.  So many of my friends are like, "oh, I don't remember what we did" or "my babies STTN".  Please know that I am extremely grateful for your advice and encouragement.  It gets me through this tough time. 

[katie80]

Well DH must have been feeling bad about his decision because he was very helpful around the house and with the boys yesterday.  He went on to say that if it continues we'll move a crib back into our room.  Only one night to change his behavior!  I wish it were that easy to change all negative behaviors!   

LOL, glad he was as good help!

Sounds like you've got a good plan for the day... I hope the boys follow suit.  One thing I noticed is the time you're doing w2s in the MOTN.  For NWs, Tracy thought it best to be done an hr before the habitual time (so they are in a heavier stage of sleep and you rouse them to start a new sleep cycle).  So, if the habitual wake is around 12:15am, I'd go in and do w2s at 11:15.

Keep me posted!  Oh and, don't beleive everything your friends say!

[Beweakley]

It's been a few days....I've had to do some school stuff this week, professional development and the like. So the boys have been in the care of my husband and parents during the day.  If this is a preview of what's to come in three weeks when I'm back to work full time, I'm doomed.   . My mom tried to stick to my schedule, but the boys weren't finishing naps and BT was getting earlier and earlier each day this week.  Then the NWs got worse because they're OT and Everett continued with the EW because his 11 hours was complete and Elijah's still trying to sleep in because he's been up half the night. I've ended up with them in the bed with me over and over again just so I can get some sleep.  And I'm still not getting any with two hot little creatures squirming about! I was back home today and managed to get an hour out of each nap and BT at 7:00 which is the latest time so far this week.  I have to get closer to 7:30 or Everett's not going to stop waking at 4:55! I believe Everett is an easy remedy as long as I can get back to a decent BT.  I don't even know what to do with Elijah any more.  I can't do ST in the bedroom with Everett because he wakes up too.  (nightmare for me).  So I haven't been consistent in that manner at all.  The only thing I've consistently done is put him in the bed with me! this is not what I want at all.

Please don't think I'm unappreciative of your help or that I haven't valued your advice.  I'm trying to implement the strategies you have given me, but I don't know how to ST with Everett in the room. And I can't predict Elijah's NWs anymore.  Last night it started at 10:30 and was off and on all night. I swear I want the 3:45 time back!  And I never thought I'd say that.  At least I knew it was coming.  Now, he wakes multiple times instead of just the once that he used to do.  Ggggrrrr....

[katie80]

(((Hugs))) hon, I don't think you sound unappreciative, it's hard to deal with so many NWs night after night. 

Are you still working on the 3.5hr A time and not getting full naps?  What exactly are the days looking like?

What's going on with the teething?  Still working on them or do you think it has subsided?  How about develomental stuff? 

Do they sleep with white noise?  Do you think Everett would be less likely to wake if there was a fan going through the night to stifle some of the Elijah's noise?  Have you tried moving Elijah to a different room... I remember you were thinking about that at one point.

[Beweakley]

Yes, we're still doing 3.5 Hrs of A.  And naps are an hour to an hour fifteen at the most.  This was yesterday:

Everett A at 3:00, I put him in the bed with me and fought with him and he dozed until 6:30.  Elijah was already in bed with me and he woke on and off all night.  He immediately woke at 6:30 also even without sleeping much through the night. 

2nd A 6:30
      S 10:00
      A. 11:00
      S 2:30
      A 3:30
      S 6:55

Today so far:
       A 6:30
       S 10:00
       A 11:15
       S. 2:45
       A. 3:30, but they dozed a little more until 3:45ish
Shooting for a BT of 7:00. 

Everett has a little tooth eruption today.  First day ive seen the redness and little chicklet trying to pop up.  Still nothing with Elijah but he's more fussy this week like Everett was last week. So, I guess they start to really suffer the week before any eruptions? Everett doesn't appear to be really affected by it though. Noses are still runny too. 

Developmentally, Everett is cruising and Elijah's trying to pull up but it's harder for him since he combat crawls and is pulling up from a laying position.  He's been able to do it several times so maybe thats part of his issue too.  During the day they're doing a lot of "follow the leader" and mocking each other.  Which is a fun game and really cute until they are following the other one's lead in crying!

I actually wrote my last post last night before bed but it didn't post until this morning.  My internet was down. So let me update on last night.    Last night they both slept sound until 12:30ish.  Elijah woke first and then Everett woke.  Inconsolable. DH took Everett out of the room to get him back to sleep.  I stayed with Elijah.  I didn't get him out of the crib, but talked and did shush pat.  Both boys were back to sleep and in their beds around 1:20.  Elijah woke again at 4:10.  I went in and did shush pat and talked.  Everett woke.  I dealt with both of them bouncing back and forth between both cribs doing shush pat and PD with Everett.  He fell asleep with elijah still fussy.  He woke again before Elijah finally settled to sleep.  I was able to talk to both and shush pat successfully even when both were at their worst, so I guess it's not impossible for them to get back to sleep in the same room and I survived too.  I don't know how long this took because I just curled up on the floor and slept in their room until they woke again at 6:30.  I'm guessing it was over about 5:30.

I use white noise every night, if I didn't they would always wake from each other and household noises.  This morning at its worst, I turned up the volume all the way.  It was pretty loud in there but I think it helped getting them to calm because there were times I couldn't shush loud enough to cover both boys fussing.  Well, I have another crib that I could put upstairs.  It's not ideal so I was trying to give this a go in their room again.  One of the reasons it was so easy to put them in the bed with me was because I had to work some this week.  I'm going to try it a few more days before I give in and move Elijah out again.  Last night gave me a little momentum to keep at it. 

They're both pretty fussy this afternoon so I might have to play it safe and try for a BT around 6:45 since they seem OT already.  Also, since sippy cups were going so well, I took away bottles.  They didn't seem to notice or care, but maybe it could have something to do with it?
     

[katie80]

I don't have time for a full reply, as I'm going out with a friend tonight (and am off to a wedding over the weekend), but I'd even go for 6:30pm BT if it looks like they're ready. I think with the teething and developmental stuff, they might need a chance to catch up on some sleep. But, that being said if they only ever do 11hr nights, I know a 5:30 wake-up is not ideal.

Re: teething. Yes, I do think the few days to a week before the tooth erupts can be the more painful part. Are you giving any meds anymore? You might want to try at BT.

Well done on tackling settling them both in their room in the MOTN! You're a superstar!!  I'd continue to turn up the white noise and give it a try for a few more days. (I'm assuming your DH will be home on the weekend, so you can catch a nap if needed.) (((Hugs))) for falling asleep on the floor... BTDT!

This is a really tough age for developmental stuff and teething, so hang in there. It will get better!

[Beweakley]

So we took the boys out on my parents boat yesterday and got back just in time for baths and bed at 6:30.  They fought sleep playing and talking to each other for about a half hour.  I was dreading the worst.  I juSt knew it would be another 4:30 wake up again.  Instead, Everett slept sound until 6:30-- just shy of 11 hours!  I hope he's getting back on track.  Elijah woke at 12:15 for his nightly play and I fought with him for an hour.  When Everett started to stir from Elijah's fussing the I took Elijah to my bed.  I didn't intend for him to stay all night, but I failed in that and once he settled down we both slept until 6:30.  I'm definitely doing w2s tonight to see if we can get through that hump.

I didn't do meds since neither have been fussy.  And I really don't believe that's whats getting Elijah up every night.  If they're fussy today I might consider it. 

Today we are back on track for the schedule you suggested the other day.  and I'm hoping naps are better if not then I'll back up BT a bit. 

Hope you had a good time at the wedding.  It's always nice to visit with friends.  Thanks for reading my rambles!

[katie80]

Let me know how it goes... 

[Beweakley]

Well we are two days in to completing naps (im capping the last nap at 45-1 hour and it seems to help) and waking at 6:30!  Yeah!  That makes things a bit more bearable in terms of getting through the night.  I did W2S  at 11:15 last night to try getting Elijah through the 12:15 wake.  He didn't wake at 12:15, instead 12:38.  Gggrrr... I actually lifted him from his crib, rubbed his back and whispered in his ear.  Then he settled right back into his crib.  This worked last time, but failed last night.  Not sure if I need to try it differently.  I have left him in the crib before and done it but it didn't work then didn't stir him enough, I guess.  Am I doing something wrong?  It seems like he's hell bent on waking at some point in the night and it doesn't matter when or for how long. 

[Beweakley]

Didn't make it 3days in a row.  The boys woke at 5:35 this morning, oh well early BT tonight.  On the other hand, Elijah didn't wake at 12:15 instead he woke at 2:17 and was up until 3:20.