Author Topic: Twins- habitual night waking  (Read 5707 times)

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Offline Beweakley

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Twins- habitual night waking
« on: June 30, 2013, 12:42:57 pm »
I have 9.5 month old twin boys, Elijah and Everett.  Everett sleeps like a dream-- he puts himself to sleep (sometimes with a short protest), no props, and sleeps all night from 8:00 pm to around 6:30 a.m.  Everett is the dominant twin and has always been more of the Mr. Independent type.  When Everett decided he no longer needed the 3:45 a.m. night feed I discontinued it...for both boys.  However, Elijah still wakes at exactly the same time every night.  At first he would cry, then he got to where he was playing in his crib.  Now, he stirs and shuffles around his crib.  I think he's trying to go back to sleep, but then gets frustrated and starts crying and screaming.  This has been going on for a long time.  The boys share a room with cribs end to end.  Until last week, his crying and screaming never woke Everett.  Now it is.  I moved Elijah's crib into my bedroom this week hoping to address his wakings before they got out of hand.  I admit, I've tried everything I can think of.  I'm a middle school behavior specialist and you'd think I'd be able to figure out how to help him unlearn this behavior, but I'm struggling.  It doesn't help that it's the middle of the night and we're both exhausted.  I've tried letting him cry it out(that was when he was in their bedroom), I've gone in and done shush-pat, I've rocked, shushed, and felt like screaming myself.  Elijah's always needed more from me...he had to be on a fortified milk mix as a newborn, he had poop issues, etc. All of that is better-- no issues, no complications.  He currently weighs nearly 18 pounds and I know he's not hungry when he's waking.  It's just habit.  Most recently I tried wake to sleep.  The first night was great.  He slept through 3:45 but then woke at 5:00 (not typical).  The next night he heard my alarm and I was screwed. last night, he slept thru 3:45 only to wake at 4:00 and on and off until 5:00 at which point I put him in the bed with me (I know---I give you permission to think poorly of me at this point).  Now, let me give you a rundown of their schedule(which I'm a stickler for): 

6:30 wake and play Floor time(they don't want to eat yet)
7:00 fruit,cereal, yogurt and back to play  in exersaucers
8:45 4-6 oz. formula
9:00 nap
10:30 wake and play
11:00 fruit, veggies (maybe an ounce or two of milk--sometimes they want it sometimes they dont)
Back to play
12:15 4-6oz. Formula
12:30 nap
2:00 wake and play
3:00 4-6oz. Formula
4:15 another 4 oz. or so
4:30 nap
6:00 wake and play
6:30 fruit, veggies
Play
7:15 baths, books
7:45 4-6oz. Formula laced with a teaspoon of cereal (I just started trying this-thought it might help and it did for two nights, but that was two weeks ago)
8:00 bed

Both boys are very active during the day, floor time, crawling around, exersaucers, outside play, etc. No teeth on the scene yet.  Lots of slobbering, and chewing, but no redness or swelling.

I should also note that Elijah puts himself to sleep most of the time.  Sometimes I have to go in and shush-pat for a second.  He also ONLY sleeps in one position and I think that's what frustrates him the most in the middle of the night. He sleeps prone with knees tucked under him, butt in the air and arms tucked like little chicken wings under him. No props, never took a pacifier for more than a few days after he was born.  He does cuddle with a very thin receiving blanket when he can get it tucked under him the way he wants it.  I think that about covers it.  Any advice will be strongly considered and greatly appreciated. 



Offline katie80

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 13:00:22 pm »
Hi and welcome to BW! :)

It looks to me like your biggest issue is their routine.  They are getting too much daytime sleep and thus having a short night of 10.5hr and Elijah is not able to get himself back to sleep when he wakes.  I think it's probably starting to be an issue of Everett as well, since he started waking when Elijah was crying when previously he didn't.  Most 9.5mo olds are on two naps of 1-1.5hr each and about 3-3.5hr A time.  Take a look at these links and let me know what you think... Average A times- BOOKMARK ME! , chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months.

Also, we are opposed to any type of CIO at BW, but would love to help you find a way to get him back to independent sleep and STTN with other techniques.  Your boys are right in the age where separation anxiety can be a big issue.  You will likely need to work on regaining Elijah's trust by staying with him as he settles and then gradually working your way back out as you work on making the routine adjustments. Regaining Trust of Your Child

HTH!



Offline Beweakley

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 14:21:58 pm »
Thanks for the advice and the links to the schedules.  After looking at their schedule, I tried to push their A time a little longer yesterday and limited them to two naps...that moved bedtime to about 7:15 last night.  Everett slept until 6:20 and was very chipper this morning.  Elijah slept really well until 11:30 and then he was up off and on until about 1:30.  I tried to just shush- pat and tell him it was time to sleep.  It would help for a bit and the he'd start stirring again.  I finally put him in the bed with me at 1:30 and he slept until 6:10.  He didn't wake at 3:45, but it's not exactly ideal in how we got there.  I'm hoping that revamping the schedule will help him adjust.  Could it be that he's also sleep deprived? This has been going on for months.  Even when I fed them in the MOTN he often wouldn't go back to sleep right away. 

Any suggestions on how to help him settle at MOTN? I know seperation was a big deal when they started sleeping in their own cribs.  They shared a crib until they were five months.  At that point they were very squirrely and rolling over.  That's when Elijah really started to struggle at night.  That's also when I stopped swaddling...which they loved.  I admit I tried CIO only on the advice of other mommas who had suggested it.  Not a fan of it myself and one of the hardest things I've ever tried to do.  Not going to try it again.  Thanks for your help.  Everyday, i wake up blessed and every night I go to bed hopeful....for sleep for us all. 

Offline katie80

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 15:02:51 pm »
It may just take Elijah a bit longer to settle into the routine.  He sounds like the more spirited of the two.  What did their day look like on two naps?  Maybe we can tweak it a bit to help him.

Do you think he is teething at all? The frequent wakes early in the night suggest either some OT or discomfort to me.  It's possible that he has some built up OT from months of not getting enough night sleep, but he was getting decent naps, so I don't think it would be too bad. 

As for settling in the MOTN, I would just stay consistent with one method and see if through.  Use shh/pat, but at this age, your voice is the key.  So, don't shh/pat or rub his back til he's all the way to sleep, but just until calm and then sit with him, reassuring him with your voice until he can drop off on his own.  It will be best to eliminate the other possibilities of him waking though, to make sure there's not something preventing him from falling back to sleep on his own. 

(((Hugs))) on the CIO, I've BTDT on the advice of others as well.  It's unfortunate it's such an advocated method, because it is definitely not the best one and is much more likely to cause angst/harm than good.  I'm glad you found us... we'll be happy to help you try to figure this out without any CIO. :)



Offline Beweakley

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2013, 19:03:59 pm »
So far things are going pretty smoothly today.  So far  :) Here's our schedule on two naps:

6:15ish wake and play
7:00 breakfast-cereal, fruit, yogurt,offer sippy of milk but takes very little
Resume play until 9:15
9:15 5-6 oz. milk- bottles
9:30 nap
10:45 wake and play
11:30 lunch- fruit, veggie, offer sippy of milk
Resume play until 1:45
1:45 5-6 oz. milk- bottles
2:00 nap
3:15-3:30 wake and play
4:15 4-5 oz. sippy of milk
Resume play
5:30 supper- fruit, veggies, offer sippy of milk
6:00 walk outside/ play
6:30 baths, books
7:00 5-6 oz. milk- bottles
7:15ish bedtime

That was yesterday's schedule and we're on the same track today. 

About Elijah--- maybe teething? He's definitely chewing a lot during the day but I can't see any irritation.  He's so laid back about stuff it's hard to tell if he's really bothered by it. Tonight's goal is going to be that he stays in his crib with me sitting near and talking to him. It makes so much sense when you say that my voice is the key at this age.  Because I can simply say, "Elijah, it's time to sleep," and he immediately starts to snuggle into his little sleeping position.  Sometimes it's enough for me to say that, and sometimes he needs more.  I was gone this morning, but my mom said that he went down with no protest at the first nap.   Just now, same thing.  I laid him down told him it was time to sleep and I walked out and stood by the door.  I heard him motor boating (blowing raspberries for a couple of minutes) and then he was out! His awake time must have been about the exact time he needed for him to have nodded off like he did. 

Everett protested a little more before this nap and I had to go in and do shush-pat for a few seconds.  He's standing and pulling up on things so that's his new thing to do in the crib.  I only had to lay him down once and pat for a few seconds.  Then he settled right in...he was on the verge of being OT and a little fussy as a result. Elijah's not yet standing or pulling up like Everett is or I'm afraid this would be much more difficult.

I had tried to move to two naps a couple of weeks ago in an attempt to help both boys STTN.But I was met with a lot of resistance and crankiness.  And being out numbered (especially when my husband's at work) I gave in to the three naps still.  Trying ths again this week has already proved more successful, so they must be ready for it. 

Do you think I should move Elijah's crib back in to their room? The only reason I moved him in to  mine was to try to catch him shuffling and stirring before he became fully awake.  That's harder to hear on the monitor especially with two of them in there and over the sound of their white noise playing.  Maye keep him with me through this week and see if things are rounding out? My husband might have to tough it out in the spare bedroom a little while longer...  ;)

Offline katie80

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 13:28:45 pm »
The routine looks pretty good to me.  It was quite a jump in A time for them, so it's normal to be met with a bit of resistance while their bodies adjust.  I would over the next week, gradually move the A time out to 3.5hr, as where you are right now at 3.25, they're not sleeping a full nap of 90min (which they might settle into after a few days). Also, I wouldn't be hesitant to get them down for bed a bit earlier while they adjust, 6:45-7pm might help that last A time not get too long.  But overall, it sounds like it's going well!

As for Elijah's crib, I'd keep it in with you for a little longer while they settle in to the new routine.  Once things are ironed out a bit, he can go back and if he wakes, hopefully Everett will be sleeping more soundly now that he won't wake.  While Elijah is in with you, I would not try to catch him while he's just stirring and shuffling, as you are more likely to become a prop that way.  He may stir and shuffle and even make noises, but then go back to sleep on his own.  It's always best to wait for him to really need you before going to him, so he doesn't continue to wake when he doesn't need to.



Offline Beweakley

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2013, 21:35:05 pm »
I'm trying to continue to stretch their A time if not but by a few minutes each day.  I'm not giving up, but last night was rough!  Elijah woke three times last night.. 1:15, 3:00 and 5:00.  Yuck!  Everett even woke up last night at 11:45 and was crying.  I really think we're in the midst of some teething.  He even has a little swollen spot and redness on his gums today.  Both boys calmed rather quickly with Elijah's longest time occuring at the 5:00 time.  Any recommendations on dealing with the teething since that is going to start messing with STTN?  Have you ever used those Hyland's teething tablets? 

While Elijah is in with you, I would not try to catch him while he's just stirring and shuffling, as you are more likely to become a prop that way.  He may stir and shuffle and even make noises, but then go back to sleep on his own.  It's always best to wait for him to really need you before going to him, so he doesn't continue to wake when he doesn't need to.

Totally agree on this and I realize that's what I've been over and over for him. Last night, I desperately tried to wait him out and not say anything until he cried.  Boy, that's tough, but I know it will pay off in the long run. 

Offline katie80

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2013, 13:19:04 pm »
Hi hon, sorry it took me a little while to get back to you.... Ugh, teeth! Sometimes they just mess with everything.  The best thing you can probably do is be as consistent as possible, but know that they may need a bit more 'help' in the MOTN and things may be a bit wonky for a little while.

Have you ever used those Hyland's teething tablets? 
I haven't.  When I mentioned them to our doctor, she wasn't super excited about them, so I've never tried them.  But, I do have some friends who use them and swear by them.  I've always used a combination of Tylenol and Motrin.



Offline Beweakley

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2013, 13:21:39 pm »
I'm not sure what else to do.  Elijah was awake from 12:15 to 1:40 last night.  He was kicking wildly and I did hear some gas so that might have been the culprit but he was up for so long after that.  I also think I'm a prop for him...not sure what to do.

Offline katie80

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2013, 14:02:19 pm »
Sounds like discomfort. :(. The way to get out of being a prop at this age is to settle with your voice, using touch when needed, and then gradually move farther and farther away until he is doing it on his own and you are out of the room.

Have you tried giving meds for the teething?  Did he eat anything different yesterday that could be causing gas/discomfort?



Offline Beweakley

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2013, 16:41:37 pm »
I gave the hylands teething tabs for the last two nights.  It seemed to help the night before, but I don't knw what was going on last night.  Everett did well with the tabs and i had to give him a few during the day because he was very grumpy and has some redness.  Since Elijah's  in the room with me, I've been trying to settle him with my voice and not getting out of bed.  But I had to get up three times to shush pat... Each shush pat was only a few seconds and the last one did the trick.  He was so tired by that point that he nodded off pretty quickly after.  I'm thinking of putting him back in their bedroom so I can start to move myself further away. 

Foods were all ones he's eaten before...regularly.  But it could have been something like that.  I have a menu for them because I won't remember without it.  I need to watch to see if the Thursdays foods are bugging him.

Offline katie80

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2013, 18:15:57 pm »
You sound very organized!  It will be interesting to see if you find anything. 

Sounds like you have a good plan in moving him back.  Let me know how it goes... :)



Offline Beweakley

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2013, 10:50:12 am »
Ha! Well I guess I try to be!

So, I decided to wait on moving Elijah back because Everett's been waking in the night crying.  He woke up with a whimpering cry from yesterday's nap and had a hard time going to bed last night.  I blame teething.  On a brighter note....a really bright note....Elijah slept from 7:30 to 5:30 this morning! That's the longest stretch of time he's ever slept!  He barely stirred in the night!  I was in disbelief when I woke up this morning.  Granted, I would have preferred a time closer to 6:30 or later, but I'll take what I can get at this point.  Let's pray for more nights like this!

Offline Beweakley

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2013, 10:36:34 am »
What are the possible culprits of waking early in their sleep shortly after going to bed? Everett cried in his sleep off and on all night and I know his is from teething.  Elijah woke at 10:45 and stayed awake until 12:30. We did have to go to bed a little earlier than usual since they started the day so early yesterday.  But Elijah's so inconsistent...night before he slept 7:30-5:30, last night he slept from 6:45-10:45, then awake until 12:30.  Back to sleep until 4:45 and awake again. I think Elijah's teething too.  His inconsistency makes me want to pull my hair out.

Offline amayzie

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Re: Twins- habitual night waking
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2013, 12:36:39 pm »
Usually waking in the early night is from OT but can also be from being too hot
Katy, Mummy to Hamish!