OT/UT I just don't get it

[Skadiver13]

Ok I have jo idea what I'm doing at this point. Liam was up a lot the night before due to gas but due to class he went down at 11. Slept till 1:20. Down at 6:30. Woke at 5:10 happy as a clam wth. It's ether OT or I need to start pushing that nap to 12 but how when he's waking at 5am

[Emami]

When you say giving him 2 naps backfires what do you mean?  Does he still refuse the second and just end up with one short nap or does it affect nights?  I'm not trying to push giving 2 naps sometimes, but I just know my dd would've been a mess on one nap with a 5am start.  Even now at 23 months if she was up at 5 I'd probably only get her to 11:30.
I do know that some people have success getting a later WU by pushing the nap out but tbh I don't know how that works without OT.  That's why I'm just wondering what happens if you try 2 naps every once in a while?

[Skadiver13]

He'll always wake early the next morning and with two naps it pushes BT to 7/7:30 but he'll still wake at 5:30 so he gets even less sleep. I can't do two naps today because we have gymnastics at 9:30 and wont be home till almost 11. But tomorrow we have nothign so I think we may try two naps tomorrow if we can.

I know he needs me to push the nap towards 12 but you are right a 5am wake up just leads to more OT. I thought yesterday with an early nap and semi normal BT I might get a 5:45/6 wake up which I could start to push the nap but he woke up even earlier. UGH...

[Skadiver13]

So he short nspped woke at 12:50 definitely ot. Tried CN at 4 curteny rocking him now as he refused to sleep.  Fell asleep at 4:15
 Will wake at 4:45 thinking bt of 7?

[Emami]

I would think he'd go down fine at 7. Fingers crossed anyway for a good night and later start tomorrow!

[Skadiver13]

Thanks will let you know. He's happy now which is good running around like a crazy person LOL not cranky so that's good. He rarely is though. Set naps/BT was working so well not sure what happened.

[Skadiver13]

Oy... not looking forward to tonight. He. finally fell asleep at 7:30
 Just wasn't tired at by. Just laid there taking to himself.

[Skadiver13]

5:05 he's awake. 9.5hr night. What in the world do I do now. Hes never had that short of a night. I was so afraid of this

[Emami]

Ugh!  First of all I would leave him in bed as long as possible before starting the day.  Then either shoot for 2 naps to get to a reasonable bedtime since he doesn't tack on, or I would put him down around 11 and hope for a long catch up nap.  Sorry hun, I'm not really sure what to suggest.  We def had some OT, short nights etc when dd went to one nap, but she would always catch up on sleep somewhere with a long night or nap.  Doesn't seem like your little guy is doing that 

[Skadiver13]

I'm so tired. Thanks your for advice though. I was able to sort of apop him till 6 he woke off an on but at least it was a bit later to start. I do leave him in his crib. Even when he wakes at 5 I'll leave him till 5:30 or so until he really starts whining. I think I'll put him down at 10:45 and hope for a long nap and then do EBT and even if he wakes tomorrow at 5 at least he'll have a good night.. I hate this. He was doing so well I don't know what happened.

[My little Liam]

Do you think he is maybe in a UT/OT loop? Maybe the fact that you put him to bed so early is causing to wake early which then makes his A to Nap time really long and makes him OT. I know his LSN, that's why I wonder....

I am finally realizing that with Liam he needs a 12.5hr day after a good long nap. I can't get more than 11.5hrs of night sleep out of him with a long nap. Before, I was so scared of him getting OT that I made BT too early (11-11.5hr day), got a short night 10-11 hrs, or put him to bed too late (13hr day) and got 10.5-11 hrs. Generally Liam won't fall asleep of he isn't tired, but I am finding that he does fall asleep because he is so exhausted by the move to one nap and shorter nights and then the cycle never ends...
Maybe once yet get a better WU time and a decent nap you can try BT a bit later.?

The problem for us is that the naps aren't that consistent and I haven't figured out the right time to put him down after a shorter nap and then we get an earlier wake up which messes everything up once again..

[Skadiver13]

See that's the thing If I put him to bed later he still wakes early ykwim? I'm sure it could be but other than yesterday I was getting an ok nap of 2hr-2.25hrs? I just don't know how to get out of it. I tried yesterday by doing a long day with 2 naps and it totally backfired. I'm ont sure how he could be UT at bt though if he's waking at 5/5:30 and going to bed at 6/6:30 that's a 13hr day how can he be UT? why is he still waking at 5 and how do I change it?

The problem for us is that the naps aren't that consistent and I haven't figured out the right time to put him down after a shorter nap and then we get an earlier wake up which messes everything up once again..

^^^ THIS

I just don't know what to do. I thought by doing a 2 nap day and extending the day it might force a later wake up but it totally backfired. Not sure if I should try again today but I Might just to see what happens. WWYD?

[My little Liam]

Truthfully?? I would do 5pm BT. We don't get tacking on but we usually get a long UT NW which leads to a later WU 6/630 then I can "kind of" get things back on track. BUT, who knows if your LO will do the same... 

[Skadiver13]

He just doesn't wake at night he just wakes super early. He hasn't woken at night unless sick for a few months now. :/

[My little Liam]

And what if you put him to sleep at 730/8pm? Will he still wake at 5 or do 11hra from BT??