Time for Gro-Clock or routine tweak?

[Lindsay27]

DS will be 21 months this week, and has been a notorious EWer on and off since birth, but a pretty consistent EWer since starting daycare at 12.5 months.  I've pretty much accepted it and I try not to stress about it, but I am wondering if it is maybe time to introduce a gro-clock or if he needs a routine tweak?

I worry he is too young to introduce the gro-clock and that he won't understand it, and also that it won't work for him because once he's up...he's up.  He wants out of his crib asap and will scream the house down otherwise.  I do think a lot of his EW problems are OT related since beginning daycare (it just poops him out), though his routine is set and he does follow it every day, his wakings stretched out over the holidays (I was off work for 2 weeks) to 7/7:30am but then he went back to EWs once he started daycare again.  He's in daycare 5 days a week.

His routine is roughly...

WU: anywhere between 5:15am - 6:30am, it varies day by day, though usually around 5:45am
Nap: 12:30 - 2:30pm give or take, though usually somewhere around 1.5-2hrs
BT: 7pm

The 'ideal' WU time would be 6:30am - I think I could handle that weekdays and weekends, so we aren't *that* far off.  I think his routine is pretty good, so I'm wondering if it's time to think about the gro-clock?

[goldmom]

Have you considered pushing BT until 7:30 or so in order to push out WU? DS has a similar schedule to yours (WU 6:30, nap ~12-2 (1.5-2 hours), BT 7:30).

We introduced an imitation gro-clock at around 24 months, but DS was already moving around in his room by then (climbing out of his crib and moved to a toddler bed at 24 months). He had been starting to wake at 5:45 for a few days before we started using it, so it wasn't a long term problem that we were fixing. It took only a few days for DS to get the point that WU is when the light goes on, it could be 21 months would also have worked, but you'd have to keep the concept simple ("only call for someone to get you when the light goes on, otherwise it's still night" and when I come get him in the morning "did the light go on yet?...ok, good, it's morning" - this way it reinforces that he should look for the light before calling out)

Can you start putting books or toys into his crib for him to play with in the morning. We started that earlier on and it kept DS quieter in the morning (before then he always called to come out as soon as he woke up).

[Lindsay27]

Have you considered pushing BT until 7:30 or so in order to push out WU?

On the nights that he goes to bed a bit later, it doesn't seem to impact his WU time, which is why we've pretty much stuck with the 7pm BT because we end up getting a longer night that way.  Though, maybe if I consistently stick to a later BT for say a week I would start to see a difference?

Can you start putting books or toys into his crib for him to play with in the morning.

I guess my only question about this is...at that time in the morning it is still pitch-black outside.  So, when he wakes would I go in and turn his light on and then ask him to play with his books?  I feel like that wouldn't work because as soon as he saw me he'd think it was time to get to get out of bed and he wouldn't be very happy about me leaving again.

[goldmom]

He started reading books in his crib during the dark winter also. We kept a hallway light on (with his door open) at night until he fell asleep (usually 10-15 minutes and then we closed the door) so that he could read in bed and then when he woke up in the morning we wouldn't open a light for him, but somehow he still knew his books were there (maybe b/c he fell asleep reading them?), so he was able to entertain himself. Even now, he'll sometimes get out of bed and play a little in the dark in his room before he calls for me (doesn't happen often, but if it does I think he's waiting for his gro-clock to light up). I definitely wouldn't go in to open a light, just hope that he realizes he can play by himself before needing you. The "practicing" at night is what helped us, b/c then we could tell him that he could read a little if he wanted to. This never got out of hand (we had a rare night or two where we heard him reading for up to 30 minutes, but not often), he was already an independent sleeper, and wasn't going to sleep OT, so he easily stayed up for his reading without effecting his nights.

[Skadiver13]

Liam is so much like your Bennett I can't even tell you. We do the EXACT same routine. For the past week he was doing 7-7 but then on day 8 it was back to 5:45. Nothing changed just went back to what he was doing. I tried pushing bt to 7:30 but he still woke at 5:45 so we've stuck with it. So my question is do I cut the nap down? Or just deal with the 5:45. He will also scream the house down if I don't come in a matter of minutes. There is not just playing around in his crib.

[Lindsay27]

I tried a bit later of a BT last night, and the previous night, and it didn't impact his WU time at all - still 5:45am both days, and last night he actually had a NW at 10pm.  I'll try it for a few more days and if nothing changes I'll go back to 7pm.

He has his "Scout" dog (it's a vtech dog) that goes to bed with him, it sings fun songs and also has a "sleepy song" mode so I turn that on when he goes to bed, so you would maybe think that he'd want to play with that when he wakes up in the morning, but he doesn't and just cries immediately.  I can try putting him to bed with books, and he'll probably understand that they are there in the morning, but it is so dark you literally can't see your hand in front of your face so I'm not sure he's just going to play with something he can't see?  Maybe if I put some light-up toys in there?  But at the same time I would want him bumping into them and waking him in the MOTN.

Gah, I don't know.  I've pretty much accepted the EW because over the months I've tried everything to change it, and nothing ever works - BT, nap times...doesn't impact the WU at all which is why I was thinking it might be time to start thinking about the Gro-Clock.

[Skadiver13]

Gah, I don't know.  I've pretty much accepted the EW because over the months I've tried everything to change it, and nothing ever works - BT, nap times...doesn't impact the WU at all which is why I was thinking it might be time to start thinking about the Gro-Clock.

I Hear ya. We have Scout to and he just throws it out of his crib. He hates anything in there with him. Books, blankets nor a pillow will last. I have just accepted the 5:45 is his normal wake up and I will wait for the day when he's a teenager and I have to drag him out of bed. Sorry not much help but I commiserate with you for sure.

[goldmom]

Would definitely try a gro-clock, not to expect miracles, but he can probably learn in a few days/weeks to wait a little longer before getting out of bed.

[Lindsay27]

Ya, I think I might give it a go soon.  I put him to bed at 7pm last night and he actually slept a little later this morning (until 6am).  Sometimes I find an early night (even 6:45pm) he ends up sleeping later the next morning - does that ever happen with you Siobhan?  Daycare said he had a late nap yesterday because someone was coming to fix their furnace, so he might have been a little more tired because of the longer A time in the morning.

[Skadiver13]

I'm not sure I've ever really tried it. Occasionally he'll sleep for 11hrs like the other day he was asleep at 7 and woke at 6 but yesterday it was asleep at 7 wake up 5:45 on the dot. Maybe I'll attempt an earlier BT today and see what happens. But I honestly don't think 15min at this age  so BT at 6:45 makes that much of a difference and I'm afraid he'll wake at 5:30 LOL.

[kittyverde]

I really do think 15 minutes makes a big difference. With a 2 yo with chronic EW, I have learned the hard way. Every time he starts waking at 5:30 after illness or some schedule disruption, I try to keep putting him to bed at our regular time but he keeps waking at 5:30. Once I finally do the bedtime 15 minutes earlier he is back to 6:30. He does not seem OT but it is a lifesaver! I keep thinking he is going to grow out of the needing to go to bed super early and by keeping him up later I will have some miracle morning where he wakes at 7, but it has never happened. But I still keep hope alive! Good luck! Also we started the grow clock when he was 15mos. He got it pretty fast as long as you consistently wait to come in until after it is on- synchronize your clocks Now there is no doubt when it comes on, I hear a big "yay!"

[Skadiver13]

Hi lindsay have You tried the 6:45 bedtime?

[Lindsay27]

We did try the 6:45am BT and got a 6am WU.  The few following days we did 7pm BT and WU was around 6:10am.  He's got the flu now though, so things are a bit of a write off here...me cleaning up vomit and diarrhea at 4am this morning.  Yuck!

[Lindsay27]

Okay, I'm back.  I can't begin to express how tired I am of waking up at 5:30am.  There are many times I say I've 'accepted' it, but then there are days like today when I am literally furious that he's up, and it takes everything in me to hold it together.  I am so exhausted at waking up at this time for the last...year.  Okay, end rant.

So he's doing about 10.5hr nights, is that 'normal' for his age?

Last week I tried pushing BT to 7:30pm but it didn't make a difference, his BT doesn't seem to affect his WUs at all, it's like he literally just has an internal clock that tells him 5:30am is time to wake up.  I try to tell him that it's still night time, but he just screams and screams and screams until I take him out of the crib.  I tried taking him into our bed this morning because I refused to get up, and same thing...just screamed until I was so annoyed I got up.

A normal routine is:
WU - 5:30/6am (today was 5:25am)
Nap - 12:30 - 2:30
BT - 7pm

I mean...I think his routine is ok?  I don't know?  He's been on this routine forever.

I'm just so tired of this. Sigh.

[My little Liam]

hey Lindsay,
as you know sleep here has been horrible since 18months but things are finally starting to get better! i think a lot of it was my denial that he needed his nap capped, tons of developmental stuff going on, and we got a groclock!!

anyways, i think if you want to push bt later you need to push the nap later also. liam is currently doing a 6.5-6hr45 A in the morning before his nap, then 1.5hr nap and 4hr 45-5hr A to bt.
considering that he is still doing 10.5-11hr nights, you don't HAVE to cap yet if you don't want to, but you do need to move the nap later i think if you want a chance at a later wake up. i think if you do that together with the gro clock and give it a week or two it will eventually work.
i don't know when you would like him up in the morning but this is what we have been doing

wu 645/7
nap 130-3
bt pd at 730, asleep 745/8

i started with the gro clock at 630 and slowly moved it later. i have a vid monitor so i see him when he wakes and he lies back down in the morning if the sun is not up yet. he has never fallen back asleep if he has already done 10.5-11hrs (if he has done less than 10hrs there is more of a chance of him falling back to sleep and then we have a good wu to work off of, yk?) but at least he is quiet and resting and that gives me a chance to wake up peacefully in bed with out rushing in to his screams, yk?

i think since you are still getting good nights with the 2 hr nap i wouldn't cap (unless you want an even longer night, of course) and do something like this, depending on when you would like wu to be:

wu 6/630 (bro clock on for 630 at the start and slowly move to 645, or so?)
nap 1-3
bt 730