Is there anything I can do to improve his mood?

[Buttonbobs]

Sending sleepy vibes honey xxxx

[labrodyk]

thanks for all your sleepy vibes and positivity! I'm not sure what to make of the last day or so and tonight's been very strange.

1. Naps - I can't wake him. He cries and tantrums ans refuses to get out of bed. No amount of bribing or reward charts helps. It took me 30mins today. I went in and roused him and then went out came back and he was asleep again. I did this forever until my parents arrived and he got out but he just sooked and said "harry stay in bed, don't want to get out!" (He's 27mo  ).


2. Bedtime - tonight was perfect. I've changed the tactic and allowed him to close the door to his liking before he hops into bed and I don't touch it. Tonight he went back to his usual "go away mummy" and didn't say a sound from 7.30. Until 8pm when he started clapping and then he appeared at my door way. I've taken him back 3 times (in silence) now.

he woke really early chatting around 5.30 this morning and I don't know if he went back to sleep but appeared at my side at 7am. He fussed at 1pm nap and I don't know what time he fell asleep but looked exhausted all afternoon and was a hyper mess by bedtime so I thought he genuinely was OT.

Mum confused about where to go from here - part of me wonders if the nap today was really short (took a while to go to sleep) hence the refusal to get up but the better bedtime farewell but then he claps and gets out 30mins later. We haven't had any night wakings but they're likely soon.

Am I doing the right thing? Something feels off or I'm missing something.

[jessmum46]

Hugs, this nap dropping can be so tough.

DD was hideous to wake too, she would do that turning over, closing her eyes, ignoring me thing.  In the end to save our bedtime and nights I ended up physically picking her up out of bed, expecting a tantrum and having a nice snack and CBeebies waiting . When we got deep into the 1-0 I actually found she was almost pleasant to wake after 15-20 minutes ie before she hit deep sleep. But any longer was awful.  Worth thinking about?

It is different for everyone, but if you think he is getting OT from short nights, my suggestion would be to continue to cap the nap short (or even do it out and about in the stroller/car - I found it was easier to wake them in that situation) but bring BT a touch earlier if he's struggling, even just as a one-off.  Night sleep is far more restorative and that way you avoid the issue of a long nap robbing your night and making the situation worse x

[Buttonbobs]

I agree with Kathwrine that trying shorter naps and perhaps in the car/stroller is a good idea, particularly as this was what was working and helping while you were away. It will only be for a short spell until he can drop the nap completely and it may make all the difference. I suppose it's easier for him to stay in light sleep than it would be in his bed. So less upset when he wakes, and then tired enough at BT.

[labrodyk]

Ok, that's really interesting, thank you so much!!

should I do just his usual one sleep cycle from 1 or cap? Perhaps I could move nap to the lounge or my bed where I know he does 45mins and then wakes himself? Pram I can do (except it's 38 degrees outside at the moment) and usually does take a lot later nap in the pram. how late and how long is too much if I can't get him down at 1 out and about? I don't have a car so can't do that everyday unless DH is home.

Thanks so much - you're all so amazing!!

[labrodyk]

quick one - today was really odd. I decided to try a nap on the lounge today and told H he could play quietly with his cars and that when he was tired he should come and get me and we can lie down together (was planning to go back to him just before 1 to keep our usual time). He came and found me about 10mins later and said he was tired and wanted to go to bed! He only wanted to sleep in his bed but we had absolutely no battles and he went to seep perfectly after PD at 12.50. However, he woke after about 40mins and lay quietly until 2 when his gro clock went off. He's NEVER done anything like that before so I was shocked but we did have an early start of chatting before 6.30.

the rest of the day he was pretty feral and he had a crazy tantrum after I removed him prematurely from the bath as a disciplinary move (was standing on the side and trying to belly flop in  ). He then got dressed and curled up into bed and I left the room at 7 having had no milk, books or brushed teeth. 20 minutes later he comes out asking for milk and declaring it wasn't bedtime so we whizzed through that and was back in bed by 7.30. Despite getting out and being returned to bed a couple of times he was asleep by 8pm.

Just not sure where to take our naps and bedtime? Should I have had him in bed at 7 after that small nap? I got the feeling I should have but I'm feeling quite clueless without a plan and a method of nap and duration.

What would you amazing ladies suggest?

[Buttonbobs]

Wow! I do find that with some things when I have been battling with E for a while over something, if I give her the power to decide and go with her decision, she behaves better. So perhaps it is time to see if giving control of when and how he sleeps (within reason) might be a way forward for you.

Personally I think at this age an hour at BT won't make that much difference but I guess you'll need to see how he is in the morning. Fingers crossed for you x

[labrodyk]

Hmmm,  we're hitting massive tantrums which are just so extreme I can't help but determine he's OT.
I tried letting him have some control over the nap again and it just ended in tears.

We're only getting 10-10.5hrs at night and 45-60mins for nap. He had 5mins in car at 1.20 and it took me an hour to get him back down (I had to lie down with him) so 2.20 and I woke him at 3. Wouldn't go to bed until 8 (asleep 8.30) but I had to sit outside his room out of sight as he kept getting out.

When he's awake he cries a lot and tantrums over very small things. I've followed a lot of the behaviour forums and it's just something I can't shake. He also gets extremely overexcited and is a complete maniac from dinner onwards and he won't calm down - it often ends in horrific tantrums that require major intervention for "time in" from me and by then we might be 1/2hr-hr away from bedtime but he's exhausted. 

So confused but his behaviour is pretty feral so I jusf feel he should be getting some more sleep but I have no idea how to get that?

[labrodyk]

Ok, so today my toddler decided to tantrum for 45mins...straight. It was absolutely terrible and nothing would calm him. It happened when out and he cried the whole way home (in my arms) then continued for another 20mins. I tried to put him straight to bed with his comforters to try and calm him down but he just kept crying so mum got him up and gave him a sandwich. I wasn't up for fighting nap time so I told him to tell me when he was tired and ready for bed. Got him down finally by about 1.40 (asleep 1.50) and I had to wake him at 4! Needless to say it's 8pm and he's still awake. I'm aiming to have him in bed by 8.30 but who knows, will see what happens.

He's CONSTANTLY hungry saying "Harry still hungry" every 5 seconds. I feed him and he just gobbles so that could be part of it.

It's been a really bad day, I'm sorry I'm venting. I just want him to be happy

ETA: in bed at 8.50 but hopped out 3 times before finally staying put by 9

[jessmum46]

Hugs, it does sound like he's got OT.  It is inevitable as part of the nap dropping process but it isn't pretty and tantrums can be pretty intense for some LOs .

I'm sorry, I'm following a few threads at the moment and have forgotten where you were up to.  Are you following a set time for nap attempt and BT, and what length were you planning to cap to? 

Just my experience, but those long naps always backfired here.  I would personally do what you can to avoid them and offer a short nap and early bedtime instead.  I know it's hard when LO is exhausted but you want him to catch up with night sleep, not naptime x

[labrodyk]

It doesn't seem to make any difference what I do in the day time, his nights do not change so I think that's what is making him so upset.

We had been sticking to a nap at 1-2 capped (any range of sleep in there from 30/40/45/50 mins) with BT at 7. He began to take ages to settle at 7 so I moved it to 7.30 upon advice from here that he was UT but not sure if that was the right thing to do now that he's miserable. It's hard to gauge when he wakes up but it's usually 6/6.30 and lays quietly with his gro clock until 7 but it can also be around the 5/5.30 mark too.

I know it's better for him to have restorative night sleep but he just doesn't tack it on. Plus, after yesterday's episode I didn't personally have the strength and the mental capacity to wake him up

[Buttonbobs]

The thing to remember is that OT can build up as a result of UT.

I still think it sounds like you were getting better sleep with later shorter naps while you were away on holiday, is it worth giving this a try again?

[labrodyk]

Thanks everyone.

I tried shorter later naps but I just can't get him down and then it's too late in the afternoon. I don't have a car and that's the only place he'll do a short nap. The pram is hard also and if we do a wind down at home then I can't get him to hop in pram and head outside (it's also far too hot).
I tried a nap at a friend's house on the lounge thinking he'd do his usual 40mins but he kept sleeping so woke him up.

I just can't work out where and, how long for the nap and what BT...sounds like I'm making excuses but I am genuinely confused.

Thanks for the ongoing support, I really appreciate it.

[labrodyk]

Today we did 1-2 in bed (he said he was tired?) but come bedtime at 7 he was fighting me tooth and nail! screaming "no bed" and wouldn't get in, despite yawning continuously from 6.30 whilst we were reading. Got out so may times, screaming and crying then finally after I threatened to close the door if he hopped out again, he got in and lay still on the provision that I was sitting in a specific chair outside the door. Has lay quietly for 40mins so far...

I really do give up. I feel like I'm going around in circles and every decision I make is wrong. I'm tired of fighting this much with a 2yo - it's ridiculous. He is incredibly defiant and no amount or various kinds of discipline are working. I'm at the end of my rope.

Thanks again for listening. xxx

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Was he asleep from 1-2? Sounds ut at bedtime (or at least that is what happens here with ut!). I think for your sanity it might be best just to set naps & bed time and let the chips fall where they may for a bit. The consistency might actually help you both.

As for the defiance, that can be par for the course for a lot of toddlers as they try to assert some independence and control. I would try to set him up for success as much as possible by anticipating what might cause issues in advance. At this age redirection and distraction were the only way if I couldn't prevent something in the first place. They may understand "no" or other things but they lack impulse control to follow through and stop themselves.