Help still struggling - 8 months old now

[jakobsmom]

We are still struggling here.  I have determined that DS is lower sleep needs but not drastically low.  This is the new routine that seems to be working for the day but not for NWs.  Some days DS will do a long pm nap others a long am nap.

This was our day yesterday where he had a long am short pm.  I did try to decraese A times a touch to see if this helped, but he wouldnt fall asleep until his normal A times.

Up 715
3 hour A time
Nap 10-1145
Ended up with 4 hour A after long nap, but tried to get him down starting at the 3.15 mark
Nap 345-415 (had to wake due to an appointment)
3.5 A
BT 730

First NW at 930
Second NW 130 am
Very unsettled until around 4 (not awake but not a good sleep)
Up for day at 650

DS has recently had several huge milestones he claps, waves, crawls and is trying to oull himself up on everything!

Also a coupke teeth getting ready to make their appearance.

Thanks for any insight.

[jakobsmom]

Just an update on yesterday.
Awake at 7
Tried 3 hour A to nap, but big time resisted nap eventually went down at the 3.5 mark
Nap 1030-1230
Took DS into room at 3.75 mark fell asleep easily at 4 hour mark
Only let sleep 40 minutes
A time to bed was about 3.75
Bed was 830
First NW at 1100 then continual NW almost every hour.

I do not like how long our day is getting and am going to do my best to avoid a 14 hour day but this is getting exceedingly harder with the long A time.

Should I cut second nap to 20 minutes, maybe this will help preserve BT?

Thank you for taking a look, one tired mommy here

[jessmum46]

Hi Hun, we are a mess too as you know but thinking back to DDs routine at this age, she'd have probably done a much shorter last A by the time earlier A times were hitting 4h.  I'm thinking more like 2.5h after a catnap.  The pattern of NWs yesterday suggests OT to me.  Do you think he'd have gone down any sooner for bed?

[jakobsmom]

Hi Katherine
Thanks for taking a look.  I could give it a try worse case it doesnt work and we reattempt a bit later.  I could have easily missed his sleepy cues as I was expecting at least 3.15 to 3.75 A.  Will see how today pans out.  We had an early wake at 630 so a very short night.  I am going to push him to normal nap time of 10 and see how the day goes from there.  He is one grumpy soul this am.  Hope your day is better too . So difficult, I return to work tomorrow - only teo days a week but would like a bit better grasp on things.

[jessmum46]

Hugs Hun, it's hard working on less-than-ideal sleep.  I hope your first day back goes well xx

[jakobsmom]

Well we made it to 940 no way we could make it to 10 for first nap

[jessmum46]

we've had plenty of days like that, hope things get back on track the rest of the day xx

[jakobsmom]

Ok so here was yesterday.
Up 630
Nap 945-1130
A 4 hours
Nap 330-4
A 275
BT 645

Then many NWs firstone being only after 45 minutes.  He was happy trying to sit up about every hour and finally crashes at 2 am.

I am thinking not enough A until BT and he was UT - thoughts?

[newkidontheblock]

It could be residual OT, Kristen, and nothing to do with the day in question. Doesn't he usually put up a fight if he is UT at BT?

[jessmum46]

I'd still say the pattern was OT, not UT.  Maybe less OT than usual so didn't crash so hard?

[jakobsmom]

Im starting to wonder if I am reading this poor guy completely wrong.  He slept during the night at three months and even after 4 months we had only one NW.  At this time his sleep was good so I didnt focus on A times and nap lengths.  Im wondering if I have pushed him too far with trying to correct the NWs and have made him more OT in the process.  I know the A times are ok because he falls alseep really easily, but maybe I shouldnt be waking him from his long nap at the two hour mark.  With capping daytime sleep to 2.5 hours he is still only getting max 10 hours of sleep at night and it is so broken up that it cant be restorative.....  Starting to think I should let him sleep and have a later BT... I know this isnt necessarily BW routine, but we have been struggling for months with no improvements .  Maybe I am going about things all wrong?

[jessmum46]

Big hugs to you hun I have been thinking exactly the same things with DS, I just don't feel like I've 'got' him and his sleep needs at all.  One minute I think he's lower sleep needs, then he gets major OT and grouchy because I misjudge a BT or something (he seems quite touchy about that and anything will throw his nights off).  And then I'm stuck wondering if in fact he is just horribly chronically OT.  Keep posting hun, I find that an outside perspective really helps in looking at the 'facts' as when I can see the grouchy LO in front of me, it's hard to consider anything other than OT as a possibility.

[newkidontheblock]

Kristen, a few more thoughts. Please disregard if I don't make any sense.

Okay, firstly, I think that there is just so much accumulated OT that you can't really go by the A times as they are all over the place. And you are getting different nap lengths even with similar times - eg: One day after 3.5, you have got a 2 hour nap but then that hasn't repeated. I agree with what you said -- I think for a few days, if possible of course -- just let him nap for as long as he needs for the first nap and then you can reassess the day based on that. If nothing else, he can catch up on some OT.

Another thing I found with E, if I go in too early, I get massive resistance and then she gets super OT by then end and crashes, and I inevitably get a short nap and a cranky baby.  I am mainly speaking about this --> Ended up with 4 hour A after long nap, but tried to get him down starting at the 3.15 mark. So his A time isn't 4, it just took so very long because once they get into that mood, it is hard to snap them out of it.  Whereas here you did not have a problem ---> Took DS into room at 3.75 mark fell asleep easily at 4 hour mark.
I think L needs a short wind down otherwise like E, once he starts resisting, it becomes hard to get him down and more OT buildup

I like your idea of just going with the flow and letting him sleep in the day (for a day or two, at least) and pushing BT a little to adjust. It will at least help getting ahead of the OT a bit and then you can better assess his A time.

FWIW, L & E were doing similar times previously and right now I believe her A is 3.50, so I don't think you are wrong in thinking his is 4 hrs. But as Katherine said, the A before bed shouldn't be too long otherwise the OT monster is back.

Is he still waking every hour in the night? Could you post what the last few nights have looked like?

[jessmum46]

Dropping by with more hugs, and hoping things are ok xx

[jakobsmom]

Thank you.  Yesterday was the first day of not capping naps and this is what we got.

WU 645
A 3.15
Nap 10-1145
A 3.5
Nap 330-450
A 3.75-4
BT 845
Then he slept until 6!  I was able to resettle until 715 then up for the day.  I know this is a long day and could be a one off, but if it works for him I can deal with a later BT.  What are your thoughts?