early morning wakings....8,5 months old

[angelinagr]

She seems to need to sleep around 2pm,but I I didn't let her.....
Tomorrow I would try it

[angelinagr]

Should I stop the DF and give her a bottle before bedtime?

[katie80]

Does she not currently have a bottle before bed? If not, then yes I'd do that. Or, you can gradually take an ounce from the DF and add it to one of the other bottles during the day until the DF is gone.

[angelinagr]

She doesn't have a bottle before bed time. She is having a meal (a yogurt) around 7pm and I put her in bed around 8 - 8.15 pm. Then at 11pm I give her a bottle (DF)
I also change the meds for the teeth (doctor's advice also), but she continues to wake up at night.

[katie80]

I would offer the yogurt with her dinner and then do a bottle before bed. The DF at this age can actually disrupt their sleep cycles, so you may find she sleeps more soundly without it.

What is her routine looking like now? Is she waking around a consistent time each night? Can you describe what happens at the NW?

[angelinagr]

She usually wakes up around 3-3.30pm. She is crying and I put her in bed again. Sometimes it is difficult to fall asleep again.
The DF is actually her dinner.  If I stop the DF, I am afraid that she will be hungry during the night or she will wake up earlier than usual. Too many hours since 8pm until 7 am without any food?
Currently she is having 5 meals : 2 bottles (morning and DF), fruits, lunch and yogurt.

Thank you for the responces

[Martini~]

Hi honey, so can you post your routine again?

She definitely should have min 5 meals a day and I would even say more if some of them are just yoghurt or fruits. I also think she should still have at least 3 bottles if she is not eating any cereals on milk. Yoghurt is based on milk but still min of this age is 20/24oz. What Katie is saying is that she definitely needs that milk but some children will happily go 12h between feeds at that age. It usually depends on how much they eat during day. Mine was doing a stretch of 12-12,5h from 6mo and if DF offered he would refuse morning bottle. But we had 4 bottles a day and 3 solid meals from 6/7mo.

Regarding this waking at 3am and our discussion about food - have you considered her being hungry? Have you changed your meals plan when transitioning to 2 naps?

[angelinagr]

Our routine is like this now...

WU 7.00-7.15 and one bottle 200ml milk
Nap 9.50-10.40am (I actually wake up her)
E 11.00 am fruits (1 apple, 1 pear, 1 banana and 1 orange) in small pieces approximately 250ml. 3 times the week I give her
E 2.30-3.00pm meat or fish (50-60 gr) with vegetables or pasta, all the meal is 250ml
Nap 3.30-5.00pm or 5.30pm
E 6.45-7.00pm yogurt (200gr)
DF 11.00pm one bottle 280ml milk

I don't think that she is hungry, because in the morning she drinks 150ml milk and after half an hour she drinks the other 50ml (not always). She is actually drinking 580ml milk (20oz)
I am confused if I should push down all the meals in order to stop the DF.
I am waiting for your response...

[Martini~]

Isn't that 480ml? 200 + 280ml? Plus milk in yoghurt of course. Is that a natural yogurt or a sweet one flavored with sugar/fruits?

[katie80]

Isn't that 480ml? 200 + 280ml?

That's how I read it also. In full disclosure, I've never FF, but I do think it looks like she's not quite getting enough milk.

E 11.00 am fruits (1 apple, 1 pear, 1 banana and 1 orange) in small pieces approximately 250ml. 3 times the week I give her

Do you mean she only gets this meal 3 times a week? I think she might be hungry if she's not getting a consistent two meals every day.

If it were just a matter of moving the DF, I'd do as I suggested above and give the yogurt after she wakes from the pm nap at 5 or 5:30 (or with the fruits meal at 11am) and then give the other bottle before bed. However, as it stands, I think I might be more inclined to giving the fruits as a breakfast before the morning nap and then a bottle after the nap around 11:30/12.

Have you tried bringing the afternoon nap earlier like we discussed before?

What if you did something like this...
WU/E (FF) 7/7:15am
A (solids of fruit/cereal 8am)
S 10-10:40am
E (FF) 11:30/12pm
A (could offer yogurt snack at 2pm)
S 2:30-4/4:30pm
E (solids of meat/fish/veg)
A
E (FF) 7pm
S  7:30/8pm

[angelinagr]

Sorry girls I was wrong....

3 times the week with the fruits I give her vitellus...
And 200+280 = 480ml.....
I've tried to bring the afternoon nap earlier, but I didn't manage to... The earlier I can put her in bed is 3.15pm...
Today I will try to give her a bottle before bed without DF

[katie80]

3 times the week with the fruits I give her vitellus...

I don't know what that is, sorry!

I've tried to bring the afternoon nap earlier, but I didn't manage to... The earlier I can put her in bed is 3.15pm...

Because she's not tired enough or because you can't due to scheduling reasons?

If the NW is habitually at 3/3:30am, you could always try wake-to-sleep to see if you can get it to go away. How do I address habitual wakings?  (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

[Martini~]

Point from me regarding feeding Honey. If we count 200gr of yoghurt in her daily milk requirement, it may be fine. Why do you offer her milk only 2x a day, she didn't like it? I would support changing feed times so all her food is offered between 7-7, but not by cutting yoghurt.

General comment if you would consider changing feeding routine:
- kiddos at that age will happily drink milk after solids or eat solids after milk even if there is not much time between solids and milk feeds
- it's good to offer fruits as a snack or as a dessert after a savoury meal rather than as a single big meal so not to develop a sweet tooth
- kiddos at that age should drink 18-20oz of milk as an absolute minimum (some countries say even 24oz until 1yo); however at 1yo it drops to 12-14oz as a minimum and all these numbers count also milk used in food (so 125g is I guess an equivalent of 7oz milk bottle)
- at 8.5mo many kiddos would go without a feed or with a small DF/NF 12h at night so definitely bringing DF earlier or decreasing it could be your goal, but not if you have no BT bottle

I would try to alternate plan so ie:
- 7am milk - as much as she wants but 150ml is fine
- 7:30/8am breakfast: cereal with fruits (but not too much) - as much as she wants; or yogurth with fruits
(11:00 am bottle - here usually up to 8/9mo kiddos have a bottle, but around 9mo you could resign from it at all)
- 12:00 lunch  (if she is hungry earlier, offer lunch slightly earlier like 11:30 or give her a snack like broccoli or carrots around 10am), great place for meat
- 2:30 bottle or if she refuses some snack (can be yogurth)
- 5pm dinner (I offered usually soem thick soup here as they can be tired at that time so something easy for them to eat)
- 7/7:30 BT bottle (I offer it at 6:30 as we have BT at 7pm)

It's just a suggestion, but squizing more meals into your day could make her eat slightly more. I'm not sure your NW are a result of hunger, but it would be worth to eliminate this reason.

[angelinagr]

vitellus is the inside of an egg, the yellow one. I don't know how else to describe it

 Around 3.00pm I am back from work and I can put her in bed (scheduling reasons).

Yesterday she was in a bad mood so she didn't eat and I managed to push back all the meals. There was not BF and I gave her a bottle before bed (8.30pm) (280ml). She woke up several times, but not because she was hungry. I gave her a bottle at 6.30am (she woke up 6.15).

Martii85 I will try to give her a bottle after a meal, but I don't think she will drink it.

[Martini~]

Haha Honey - it's called egg yolk:) if you mean this yellow part of an egg:).

Regarding feeding, in the plan I proposed you have at least 2h breaks between meals/milk feeds so she should be happy to eat/drink. Of course there are kiddos who doesn't like this kind of schedule but you may try. The other routine which works for some is spacing feeds 3-4h and but for two middle day feeds offering half of normal milk like 120ml and follow with solids immediately. It helps to fulfill the milk requirements but also allow kiddos to eat solids when hungry.

Let's see what will work for you.