Author Topic: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT  (Read 2893 times)

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Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2015, 16:47:45 pm »
What gives?

Probably the fact he's under the weather Hun :( hang in there! x.




Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2015, 01:53:34 am »
Are you medicating for the teething pain Hun, if not I would. Ibuprofen worked better than paracetomol for teething, and you can try putting a pillow under his mattress at the top end to raise his head a little, as when teething the pressure and pain is greater when lying flat.

I have been using Tylenol. But I week get some baby ibuprofen! Thank you again
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Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2015, 23:11:40 pm »
Hi Honey :)

...The sickness and teething is however bad timing, as usually it's very hard to enforce any sleep training during these times :(. However I do in your case think it worth trying to stick with it because there is every chance it is still the best way to get the most sleep into him, just bear in mind that the results might not show until he is through it, but the good habits can still be enforced in the meantime, but don't be afraid to give him the comfort that he needs, I hope that makes sense

So for his routine, it can be difficult if settling times are long. Usually I would say to pick a wake up time and go with it every day, but as he is under the weather (UTW) this could be tricky. Daytime sleep would usually be capped at 3 hours at this age max. As it's hard to say if your DS is low/average or high sleep needs until a routine is established, it will be trial and error for a while Sweetie. Main thing is to start establishing good habits, keeping up the PD training and him sleeping in his own bed, and the rest will follow. But as a guide, I'd keep pushing the nap by 15 mins if that is what you have started, so a 7.45 WU and shooting for a nap around 10. Who knows what time he will actually fall asleep, and my hunch is he will probably wake himself before you have to cap, but if not I would cap at 2 hours, and PM nap length and time will depend on the wake up (WU) time and length of nap. I'm sorry I know this isn't as clean cut and laid out as we would like it to be :( But you can check back with us regularly, for further advise.


I just wanted to give you an update with how DS is doing.
He still has a runny nose (green snot, buggers and all,) but he is doing SOOO MUCH BETTER with NT and BT! its amazing. 9/ 10 he falls asleep in 5-15 minutes and usually sleeps for 1 hr for NT and during the night is about 2 hour stretches.
Also, he is doing way better with actually eating solid foods. Its not as much as it could/should be for a toddler his age, but its better than before!
 

Nights still have some room for improvement, but last night was a good night, at least he wasn't frantic when I put him down after only giving him a short 12 am feed;  he isn't screaming as loud, is quicker to settle and go back to sleep (even if he did wake an hour later to finish feeding). DH and i agreed that when he gets over his cold we will work on decreasing the night feeds and eventually cut them out all together. 

Sunday night/ Monday morning and day, looked like:
Sunday night:
6:40 pm began BT routine
6:55 put in crib awake (little cry out but layed down right away.)
7:40pm asleep, 10 mins later cried but settled right away on own.
gave a 9pm Dream feed.
11pm wake up crying. PD for 45 mins. he was hysterical.
1 am WU crying. BF for 10 mins back to sleep, back in crib with no incident
@ 2:50am I stroked him to slightly wake him to reset sleep. it didn't work.
3:15 WU crying. so BF.. but he wasn't feeding, just suckling. stirred him enough to feed some; put in crib with no incident
5:35 WU crying. so BF
6:40 WU crying NO BF this time, got him up for the day.
E 7:40am offered solids; ate very little
A 7:55am independent play.
E 8:50am offered solids candied salmon, ate 6 bites, refused cheese, refused red meat.
S 9:10am Cranky and tired. NT routine BF rt side. Cried for 1 min after being put in crib, then mantra cried for 10 minutes, I consoled him 3 times. 
9:25am asleep. after falling asleep for 1 min he did 1 big, short, cry out (whistle still sleeping, & stayed asleep)
10:55 WU crying  ( do they eventually stop doing that?) On WU i don't remember if I BF.
A 11am 
E 1pm great eating of solids!
S 1:45pm BF to sleep (oops!) Nose was very congested & full of mucous even after clearing it out to the best of my ability. He woke up in 10 minutes (once i tired laying him in his crib). Kept doing PD until about 2:45
A 2:50 - 5:45pm play with me and then dad.
6:15 began BT routine. quite tired, impatient and agitated. only read 3 pg of BT story.
6:35 in crib, no crying. Stood up once and protested but sat himself back down and fell asleep in 10 minutes!!! AWESOME JOB LITTLE GUY!

it was a rough AM but awesome PM.

Monday night at 7:40pm, 10:30, he cried out but didn't wake up. @  11:30pm cried out again but I gave soothing word to get him back to sleep.


Now, for some moms, this would be a piece of cake, for others, they might pull out their hair. For me, Im satisfied for the progress but there is still room for improvement.

Tuesday, today, (from 12 am - 6:30 am) looked like:
12:40 am woke up and wouldn't settle on own or with soothing words. BF one side and took off, put in crib. MAN, DID HE CRY! was able to sooth to sleep eventually.
1:30 WU crying and wouldn't soothe on own, BF the other side. Fell asleep and put in crib without incident.
2:50 and sometime during the 3am hour he mantra cried out, but... i think he put himself back down.
5:25 am 1 mantra cry, settled for 10 minutes but woke up 10 mins later.
I  kept him in his crib, he seemed to be in and out of consciousness for about 15 mins. He kept sitting up, but then laying down on his own, or when I asked him to. A few times of PD. This kept going on until 6:30. Then  I got him up for the day. He had a very wet diaper and snot coming down his nose.

What does anyone make of these past days? Do you have suggestions of how to tweak the day or evening to help him sleep through the night? I'm prepared to stop Night BF once he gets better from his cold.

I'm not too sure he wants or needs 12 hours during the night. Maybe I should try 10.5 or 11 hrs of sleep?

Also, that 2nd nap yesterday, with it being so short, do you think that helped with him sleeping much better through the night? should I cap today's second nap? He is 40 mins in.
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Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2015, 07:07:38 am »
Hi, just a couple of thoughts:

I know you're not ready to stop the NFs cold turkey, but I would definitely move the DF later, if you keep it at all. In order for a DF not to disturb night sleep it needs to be between 10 & 11pm ideally after a 7ish BT. It is possible that keeping the DF so early is disturbing his sleep rhythm and causing more NWs later in the night. Seeing as your plan is to withdraw NFs once he's over his cold (and I think this is a good idea, he doesn't really need Nfs to sustain him and all these extra milk feeds will reduce his need for solids) could you start by cutting the DF, and just seeing when he first wakes and cries for milk. Then when his cold is over you can go more cold turkey on the no NFs.

I also think we could try and shift that first nap later, aiming for one nap more or less in the middle of the day, after lunchtime. I know others have suggested moving it later by 15 mins or so every three days but I think he's so UT for the map that he (and you) could really benefit from a shift to a much later nap. Have you seen these routines of other toddlers for one nap in the day:
What does your toddlers day look like?

Also, I wonder whether fixing set naps might help you:
Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When

I know this suggestion might feel very drastic, but sometimes a big change is needed to sort the sleep pattern. I think while you try to keep hold of two naps the this pattern of UT/OT and lots of NWs will probably continue. What do you think you could manage when he feels better?
~ Naomi ~




Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2015, 10:08:15 am »
Hi Honey,

I agree with Naomi on all counts. I always found that with such inconsistency it is almost impossible to 'see the wood for the trees' you know  ??? It is a lot more stressful when every day is different and going with set times can really help you to understand what is going on. I do think that when he has dropped the NF things will progress much faster. I speak with experience here, from when DS was younger and got used to NF's through awful teething, at which point he was eventually waking every 1.5 hours to feed, and I was exhausted. This is when I did his PD training, as you are doing now.

I think you are an inspiration, I really do. The fact that you are able to see and appreciate the progress you have made leaves me in no doubt whatsoever that you can see this through and that DS is a very lucky little fella  :-*

x.



Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2015, 17:50:47 pm »

I also think we could try and shift that first nap later, aiming for one nap more or less in the middle of the day, after lunchtime. I know others have suggested moving it later by 15 mins or so every three days but I think he's so UT for the map that he (and you) could really benefit from a shift to a much later nap. Have you seen these routines of other toddlers for one nap in the day:
What does your toddlers day look like?

Yesterday was a gong show with NT & BT.
He didnt settle for his first nap @ 9, i only tried for 10 mins and i could tell he wasnt able to fall asleep so i took him out.
tried again at 10 (he seemed tired..yet again) but after 15 mins I took him out.
Tired again at 12, he was out 2 mins after being in crib.
BUT. he slept for 1.5 hrs. This is better than the 1 hr he as previously doing, but woke up SOOOOO UPSET AND CRYING. :( And he was not having me do PD. Should I have tried to get him back to sleep? if so how? car ride?
He didnt take a 2'nd nap, and to add salt to the wound, I had tried at 5:40 to put him to bed, he was in there for an hour, tossing and turning, yelling and playing. He wasn't going to sleep. so Hubby and I decided to take him out. (usually we are firm about after BT he stays in there... but last night seemed different. Plus I was OT, lol, yes, me OT, to keep going in to do PD; and hubby didnt feel it was right to leave him in there when he wasnt tired.)
He finally started to show signs of Tiredness at 7:45 pm. Began BT routine again. after 5 mins of being in crib he was asleep  8pm

I dont think i managed this very well. But, if you think that its worth trying to repeat, Id be willing to try it again. we all did have a good nights sleep, better than ever before (its all relative! LOL!)



I know you're not ready to stop the NFs cold turkey, but I would definitely move the DF later, if you keep it at all. In order for a DF not to disturb night sleep it needs to be between 10 & 11pm ideally after a 7ish BT. It is possible that keeping the DF so early is disturbing his sleep rhythm and causing more NWs later in the night. ... start by cutting the DF, and just seeing when he first wakes and cries for milk. Then when his cold is over you can go more cold turkey on the no NFs.

Last night wake up:
-1 hr after finally falling asleep. He was pretty upset, but I could tell it was a mantra cry, so I decided to leave him for a few minutes. 2 minutes later he fell asleep on his own.
-But 40 mins later, up, and upset!!! but I Shh'd him back to sleep. I think it took ~10 minutes? This is usually the time when I would have BF, but bc he went to sleep so late I knew he didn't "need" it.
-Again, 1/2 hr later he woke up crying, i was able to shh/ soothe back to sleep.

 I believe we all slept until ~1 am??? Honestly though, I don't remember. I think we did a middle of the night feed, but i dont know for how long or what time... or if we did? Crazy.

-Woke up at 4:50 am BF. he came off on his own and I put him back in his crib in 1 motion! 
-WU @ 6:20 am. i was able to shhh him and he played for 10 minutes quietly in his crib, but started crying big time for 3 mins. once he quieted down I took him out for the day.
-Out of crib by 6:33
So in total, I think it was 2, poss 3 BF throughout the night. And i will continue to decrease it

Also, I wonder whether fixing set naps might help you:
Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When

I know this suggestion might feel very drastic, but sometimes a big change is needed to sort the sleep pattern. I think while you try to keep hold of two naps the this pattern of UT/OT and lots of NWs will probably continue. What do you think you could manage when he feels better?

Im still reading through the second link about naps and writing my notes so i can quickly refer back to them.
today i thought id try to cap the morning nap at 45 mins; he usually wakes 1 hr after going down. Push the 2/nd nap sooner thus having A longer in pm b4 BT....
Im still uncertain about pushing the 1'st nap to 11 am or 12 (and then do I give a cat nap in pm? If so what time?) .... but im worried what if he doesn't take that 2'nd cat nap, am I going to have a baby up till 8 again? and in those attachments it says everything is fine and dandy the first few days but they regress later bc they are so OT.
I think, but im inexperienced so im not sure if i should keep listening to myself, that its too soon for DS to only be napping once and im scared to try yesterdays scenario again (with trying to get a 2'nd nap.) BUT maybe he does need something more drastic.
sorry, im rambling.
My brain hurts.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 17:55:21 pm by 4babycolt »
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Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 18:01:02 pm »
Hi Honey,

I agree with Naomi on all counts. I always found that with such inconsistency it is almost impossible to 'see the wood for the trees' you know  ??? It is a lot more stressful when every day is different and going with set times can really help you to understand what is going on. I do think that when he has dropped the NF things will progress much faster. I speak with experience here, from when DS was younger and got used to NF's through awful teething, at which point he was eventually waking every 1.5 hours to feed, and I was exhausted. This is when I did his PD training, as you are doing now.

I think you are an inspiration, I really do. The fact that you are able to see and appreciate the progress you have made leaves me in no doubt whatsoever that you can see this through and that DS is a very lucky little fella  :-*

x.

You are right! Inconsistency ... its killing me. I love consistency, I love to know what to expect. I have lots of adapting to do with LO. We did have consistency b4. He'd cry i'd feed him, he'd rub his eyes, i'd put him to bed! lol! so easy! But, it wasn't getting us rest. So, its time for change, and i think the change is better!

Thank you
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 22:21:13 pm »
((Hugs)) honey, you're doing well even if it doesn't feel like it. And it was only day 1! I would say stick with the same plan to put him down for a morning nap a little later and wake him at 45 mins if you can and then go for an afternoon longer nap and BT as you've suggested. Stick with it for a few days and keep reporting back and we can reassess once he's had a chance to adjust.
~ Naomi ~




Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2015, 19:41:52 pm »
Hi everyone,

A long time since I've updated on DS progress.
All in all, He has gotten better with time and persistence. He takes himself off the breast (most times) before falling asleep, with the exception of during the night, he still wakes at 3 am and 5 am. He has been sleeping through the 11pm and sometimes 1 am wake ups. Gentle strokes and hushes most times can do the trick without having to PU and or bf. We have found that 9/10 times not responding to him (seeing if he puts himself down) leads to hysterical screaming, crying and often shaking. Sheesh right?! I still keep patient and give him a few minutes to settle on his own per chance he will. but at 3 am and 5 am its not a pretty sight. the 5 am wake ups are actually recent and I tried to nip it in the bud and man what a screaming fest. He was so wide awake, but soooo tired and refused to go back to sleep in his crib. I did resort to BF back to sleep. Fully aware that i'm perpetuating the problem, and in fact, this is most likely contributing to his tantrums he started about 2 weeks ago. But, we have decided to take the slow approach to night weaning, and weaning in general. TBH (mostly with myself) I think of this actually as the lazy way. I don't want to be up 3 am doing PU PD with a hysterical 15 month toddler or do it at 5 am. I really just want to go back to sleep. We still are in a 1 bedroom place, so the crib is in our room and my hubby has to wake at 5:30 so a 3 am 2 hour fight, on a nightly basis is too much for him too. That's  why I say we want to take the slow approach.
PS. we have bought a house that is 2 floors so I plan on nipping it in the bud when we get there. Hubby can go down stairs and sleep till its all over!

Morning naps are now the easiest for him to go down for. Originally they were the easiest, then he was refusing them, after following the advice on here I painfully endured his tiredness and kept him up longer and he went down without incidence. Well, now, he doesn't want to go down for his 2'nd NT until after 3:30. Which is WAY TOO late because come bedtime at 7pm  ... hmmm isn't tired? or is OT? Not sure. But, it has turned into an hour to 1.5 hours of screaming and crying in the crib, with me there, trying to console with him in the crib, or still doing PU PD (he's light for his age so it doesn't hurt me).
 :/ sounds exhausting just thinking about it! But man am I sooo glad i have found PU PD, Baby whisperer and all the ppl here with their advice. Thank you!
 
I can't finish this message and give our daily routine / EASY in a few days and id like to ask some more questions regarding 2-1 NT. Im pretty sure he is ready and I have been capping the morning nap, but hes stiil refusing the 2'nd until very late in the day, like I said 3:30 sometimes as late as 4 or 4:30pm but then he's awake until 8:30, and he still fights going to sleep. (but he does sleep better through the night! go figure.)

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 20:39:04 pm »
Hi honey, how're you doing?
~ Naomi ~




Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 05:29:52 am »
Hi!
I haven't replied because it's hit and miss so much; more miss than hit really. Recently DS has been waking more frequently (and screaming bc I said no to bf). Naps are a dream, mostly down to 1 a day, although the last 4 days he has been taking them pretty early; anywhere from 10:45 to 11:30 and they last 2.5 hours. 5 days ago he was taking his nap at 12:30 and sleeping for 2.5-3 hours :)
He goes to sleep really well, for naps and bed time! What a dream! but we still have 3-4 night wakings and he wont settle on his own. I'm glad i haven't tried CIO, especially a couple nights ago, he had pulled at his diaper and as a result when he pee'd at 10:30, one night, and 11 pm the other, it leaked out and soaked him and his sheets. I BF him before putting him in his crib.  I haven't cut bf during the night, though I said I would. I think I hold back bc of how little weight he is gaining; he's low on the growth charts for weight and height (though he does have a big Buddha belly!) Im going to be going back to work for 2 days a week pretty soon, I'll be working the afternoon shift, 4:30 pm - 1 am.  I wont likely be getting home until 2:30 am. sigh...
well, thats the update.

Easy
~ 7 am WU
7:30 snack
Activity, morning walk and play at park or play in backyard
9 eat breakfast
activity, some sort of outside playing
*(last few days hes been going for nap earlier but still only having 1 nap and still going to sleep at 7)
12 lunch
12:30  nap routine (read, bf. in crib awake or if he fell asleep feeding) sleeps from 2:30 -3 pm
3:15 snack
Activity play in back yard or in house
5:30 eat dinner
Activity, play with neighborhood kids or in house with dad
6:30 bath, snack, read, bf,
7 in crib awake usually asleep in 15 mins usually no fussing

habitual WU 11:30 pm, 12:30 am 3 am 5 and or 6 am
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 21:51:04 pm »
Hiya,

Can you remind us, how old is he now?

Am I right, he settles well for naps and Bt, but you are feeding him to calm him or to sleep depending on whether he dozes off or not? If this is the case, I think perhaps this might be a feeding to sleep prop causing all the wakings, but if you can confirm then we can help some more :)
~ Naomi ~