27 mth old sleep all over the place

[patsy32]

Do you think 7.45/ 8.00 pm would be ok for bt?

[jessmum46]

Yes I wold have thought that would work - did it go ok?

[patsy32]

Yes it went great !
BT - 7.50 pm asleep by 8.10 pm
Wu - 8.00 am 
I did hear her cry out for a few seconds around 2.30 am but literally only seconds and back to sleep again.
I did notice she's more tired than normal during the day and a little more whinging than normal. Would you think it's just a case of riding this phase out ? I'm just a bit worried about OT setting in but as you say before at least I have the option of a short nap during the day if that's the case!
I can't belive how quickly she has dropped from a 1hr 15 min nap to 10/20 min nap. I would never have been brave enough to try such short naps or nnd's without your help and advice.
Thank you for your encouragement and guidance  x

[jessmum46]

It could be a bit of OT building as she adjusts to doing without a nap most of the time.  Keep throwing in those catnaps as and when she needs them, sounds like it's going well so far

[patsy32]

Well I just jinxed myself again!
Yesterday was
WU - 8.00 am
BT - 7.30 pm
Nw - 4.30 am (only a few minutes )
         5.10 am (ended up in our bed & fell asleep )

WU - 8.00 am
Going to give 20 min nap around 3.30 ish and aim for BT around 7.45/8.00 pm
What do you think?

[jessmum46]

Yes I agree, I think you're doing really well

[patsy32]

It's great to have your support.  I have to be honest, at 5.20 am thIs morning I wasn't feeling so positive 
She ended up having a 20 min nap at 3.25pm,  so I'm hoping tonight should be ok. Today was
wu - 8.00 am
Nap - 3.25 - 3.45 pm
Bt- 7.45/8.00 pm
Would you think thats ok?

[jessmum46]

How did you get on?

[patsy32]

Not so good I'm afraid! Yesterday was
WU - 8.00 am
Nap - 3.25 - 3.45 pm
Bt - 8.00 pm
Nw's - 11.30 pm ( crying for just a few minutes. didn't need to even go to her)
             12.20 am ( after 2/3 failed attempts to resettle her she ended up in our bed AGAIN)

Today went like this so far

WU - 7.00 am
Nap - 4.00 - 4.20 pm
Bt - 8.00? ?

Do you think that should be ok? Think I've lost my way here a bit. Not sure if the nw's are ot or ut  anymore. ...

[jessmum46]

Honestly try not to panic, some OT and silly NWs are inevitable during the 1-0 switch.  How is her mood in the day?  Is she coping on a short nap?  At this point we set our bedtime at 6.30pm regardless of WU (our normal prior to nap dropping was 7pm or just after) and if she was really struggling still allowed the 20 mins nap, but stuck to set bedtime.

Remind me she normally sleeps independently?  Are you ok with her coming into your bed?  I only ask because (personally speaking) that is a big no-no for me, but if you can live with it for now that's fine.  Just be aware toddlers latch onto habits very quickly so it may be something you want to nip in the bud with either WIWO or gradual withdrawal x

[patsy32]

Her mood during the day isn't too bad to be honest.  She's in creche for 1st half of the day and they tell me she's fine. In the afternoon after something to eat I always try to keep her busy outside or the park etc. She is probably a tad more whingy that normal in the afternoon but nothing of a meltdown nature!
No I'm not too happy with her coming into our bed at all but with both myself and DH having to up early for work its what's worked if we can't resettle her with Wi/Wo. In 27 mths this is the 1st time we have ever resorted to taking her into the bed at all !!
In fact this is the 1st time her sleep has ever been so off for so long. I really don't know what to do with it. Before all this she was an independent sleeper all night every night.  But this has been going on for the past few mths. I'm so sick of it and don't know if it's ot/ut. Every change I make will work for a few days and then back to start again 
I really feel I'm losing control of the situation. Just so fed up of nothing working for very long and never been sure what time to give nap and for how long. What time bt should be at blah, blah, blah 😩 😩 😩
god will this ever end...........

[patsy32]

Another update on our never ending saga!!
Yesterday went like this
WU - 7.20
Nap -  3.55 - 4.10
BT - 8.00  (asleep 8.10)
WU - 5.50 -6.30 am
Resettled - 6.30 - 8.15 am (in our bed )

Today so far
Wu - 8.15 am
Nap - 2.55 -3.20
BT - going to aim for 7.45/8.00 pm

Have I capped her nap too much from 1 hr to 20 min to quickly? ?
I'm finding it very difficult to see what is working or not for her as her WU time is different every day and therefore so is the length of her day!

[jessmum46]

I really don't think you are doing that badly, I know the NW/EW are hard but nap dropping is a massive change and so some disruption is inevitable.  For us just sticking to set bedtime made a huge difference, we handed the responsibility over to DD to regulate her sleep.  So yes we had OT at times but we found that by keeping that consistency eventually her body clock set and she took the sleep she needed for the most part.  I wouldn't worry about WU time varying or day length varying - again that is part of self regulation.  The amount of sleep I need varies depending on how busy I've been, how well I'm feeling, how much activity I've done etc etc and the same goes for LOs.  What's the biggest worry for you right now? 

[patsy32]

Thanks again for sticking by us and helping us through it.
I suppose my biggest worry is that I'm getting the timings and length of nap wrong each day for her and therefore making this worse overall for her!
today we had an Ew at 5.50 am
eventually at 6.30am  she fell asleep in our bed and I had to wake her up at 8.15 am
Nap - 2.55 - 3.20 pm
Bt - 8.00 cried until I went back in and fell asleep at 8.15 pm.
I think I'm so used of having a set Wu, nap and BT for so long I don't know now what times I should be aiming for to help keep her on a regular  (ish) routine.
before all this started we were having an 11.5 hr night and a 1.5 hr nap at set times so 13 hrs overall sleep in 24 hrs.
To be honest I couldn't even tell you now what we're getting as each day/night gives us different results.  I hate having no consistency now and never know whether we're going to get Nw's /Ew and what that might be indicating as in is she ot/ut!
I don't know what times to set nap and bt for anymore based on 20 min nap.  I know she can handle a 7 hr A time easily before nap but Ive no idea what time bt should be anymore. Tonight bt was just over 4.5 hrs after nap and she cried for a good 15 min before falling asleep. Tomorrow night she could fall asleep straight away at the same time so I never know what Iam doing! She used to sleep soundly all night 4 hr 20 min after a 1.5 hr nap before this! doing bt earlier is making the day less than 12 hrs and causing her to be ut. Nothing seems to work for longer than a few days and then we're back to wondering what to change for the best.
I feel like a terrible Mother not been able to help her more 

[jessmum46]

Hugs Hun, you are not a terrible mother.  The truth is nap transitions are messy and OT is inevitable, hard, but inevitable and you are doing nothing wrong.

What was your set BT pre 1-0?  I would go for a set BT to get through this, it worked really well for us.  And try to avoid thinking OT/UT or where the nap should be.  If it's only a CN it doesn't really matter yk?  Our usual BT was 7pm, if we did a CN we did that, a NND was 6.30pm. And the the 'new normal" became 6.30pm once nap dropped for good. 

If she usually had 13h in 24, she may well need around an 11h day......just something to ponder.  Does she have a 'normal' WU time?  You could always set your BT 11h after that just as another way of thinking about it?

Have you checked out the 1-0 support thread too?