I'm so confused! Overtired or Undertired???

[Kellyjs]

Sorry hun, I haven't much experience wrt the swaddle, but there's loads of posts on the props board where people have had advice from others about ditching it.

I do think part of this is the start of the 4mo SR, which unfortunately we just have to ride out. Just be as consistent as you can and remember it is just a phase, it will pass xx

[lhanson7251]

Well I'm back and we are still struggling with naps and now she's waking at night too and having early WU's.  Grrrrrr.  I've pushed her morning A time to 1 hr 45 min the past couple days and she's taking a better morning nap.  Here is yesterday's EASY.

Woke 6:20 (playing/talking/happy, left till 7:00)
Feed 7:30
Nap 8:03-9:30
Feed 9:30
Nap 11:15-11:45 (woke fussy)
Feed 12:30
Nap 1:45-2:20 (in ergo)
Feed 3:15
Nap 5:15-5:45 (tried to lay down at 4:30 but she wouldn't settle, ended up rocking her to sleep)
Feed 6:15 and in bed at 6:30
Woke fussing at 1:30-2:30 offered paci and resettled twice, then woke talking/playing at 5:45 I fed her once she started to fuss (one side only) and she went back to sleep for another 1 hr 15 min.

Our WU time used to alway be 7:30 and it's slowly gotten earlier and earlier bc of her early BT bc of short naps all day.

I have a few questions:

-Can I keep her A time 1 hr 45 min after a 30-45 min nap if she seems content?
-Should I push her second A time longer after a 1 hr 30 min nap? Break the UT/OT cycle?
-She has been sucking on her hands alot during her A time, should we drop the swaddle and let her try to self soothe with her hands?

[Kellyjs]

How old is she now hun?

Yes I'd keep that firts A for a few days considering she's now napping longer. Actually yes, I'd consider pushing that second. A by another 10mins too and see what that brings.

She's getting near on 12hrs ONS. It would be unrealistic to expect 13hrs to bring you back to a 7.30am wu. It may be that you have to push the whole routine on like we do with daylight savings. I'll post a link for you to have a read through xx

How to Adjust to Daylight Savings

[lhanson7251]

Well when she was napping better she could make it to 7:00 or 7:30.  But now she's fighting the fourth nap HARD so we often have to do an early BT. 

She is actually 4 months old today.  We've been doing 1 he 30 A time for several weeks now and gradually pushed the first one to 1 hr 45 min.

[lhanson7251]

All hell is breaking loose!  Naps are all 30 min long now (4 of them) and we are having erratic night wakings, early morning wake up (talking and babbling).  I need help ASAP! 

We stopped swaddling this week so I'm sure that is some of the issue but she was actually fighting naps harder with the swaddle but now her morning nap has shortened because she won't sleep through the transition without her swaddle.  She's sooooo OT by the end of the day and won't let us extend her naps anymore, she arches her back and fights us.  Here is our easy from the past two days.

Woke/eat 7:00
Nap 8:45-9:30
Feed 10:15
Nap 11:00-11:45 (took a bit to settle closer to a 30 min nap)
Feed 1:00
Nap 1:27-2:15 (took a bit to settle closer to a 30 min nap)
Feed 3:30
Nap 3:50 (slept 4:15-4:45)
Feed 6:15, in bed 6:30 sleeping at 6:45
Night wake up 12:30 and 2 (gave paci/shhh) NF 4:00

Woke 7:00
Nap 8:40-9:10
Feed 10:00
Nap 11:04-11:35
Feed 12:45
Nap 1:15-1:50
Feed 3:15
Nap 3:45-4:15
Feed 6:15 Bed 6:45 sleep by 7:00
Woke fussing 10:30, wouldn't resettle till 11:30 (I think gas maybe was the culprit)  EW 5:15 talking and playing, I fed at 5:50 and laid her back down she slept 6:45-7:55

[lhanson7251]

So today's first nap was better

woke 7:55
nap in crib at 9:35 sleep 9:40-10:48 (woke happy)

Now here is the difficult part, how long should I keep her up before nap #2?

[Kellyjs]

Sorry for the late reply hun. This definitely does sound like 4mo SR shenanigans. Just be consistent ok and it will get better.

Great news the first nap went better. I would now stick to your 1hr 45mins A. In future, perhaps when she short naps you could aim to reduce the next A a little by 10mins or so and see if that helps?

This regression really does suck hun. If it makes you feel any better the next really bad one isn't until they're 18mo. Those 2 for us were the worst. Also my DD went on nap strike at 4mo for a week with absolutely no naps but an odd 10mins here and there so you are actually doing really well ok? Much better than I did. Just try and be as consistent as can be, if she does short nap reduce the next A a bit but not by much and try again. Above all repeat the phrase 'it is just a phase, we will get through this' xx

[lhanson7251]

Back again...we've been trying to ride out the 4 mo SR business and it is better but we are still struggling with naps.  I've tried to stretch her A time to 2 hrs which is fine but she still needs 4 naps a day since they are still 30 mins long.  I think she may need another extend on her first A time but she seems to fight going down and wakes crying which leads me to believe she's OT then.  But the fact that she was doing 1.45 min with no problems tells me she's just giving me false signals.   Today I laid her down at 2 hrs and she fell asleep about 8-10 mins later so we'll see what this nap holds. (fingers X)  Here is the last two days EASY.

woke-7:45
nap 1-9:45-10:15 rocked back to sleep 10:40-11:10
feed-11:30
nap 2-1:00-1:30 (was headed home from store to put her down and she fell asleep, she was yawning at store after only 1 hr 30 min A time)
feed-2:30
nap 3-3:45-4:15 (she was trying to fall asleep while eating so I laid her down at 3:20 took her a while to settle)
feed- 5:00
nap 4- 5:30-6 (wasn't planing on giving her another nap but she was sooo crabby and OT so I rocked her for this nap)
feed 7:00 in bed 7:30
NF 4:30

woke 7:20
nap 1-9:15-9:45 rocked 10:20-10:50
feed- 11:30
nap 2- 12:45-1:15 tried to resettle but she wasn't having it!
feed- 2:30
nap 3- 3:05-3:50 (woke happy and seemed rested, so we skipped the last nap)
feed 4:30 (just a couple oz. to hold her till BT)
feed 6:15 in bed by 6:40
NF 11:45 (she hasn't woke this early to feed in a while)

woke-6:15 (left in crib till 6:30)
nap 1-8:25-9:00 rocked 9:20-10:05
feed-10:30
nap 2-12:15-12:45 woke happy but would not resettle!
feed-1:45
nap 3-laid down at 2:30 to prevent OT evening and she's in there babbling/fussing. 

She is generally happy when she's awake even on such little sleep.  Problem is she gets so sleepy and tries to fall asleep while eating or in her carseat.  I can't just stay home all day I have a toddler but if I go anywhere she crashes, I try to talk to her and jiggle the seat but she's just to tired from not napping well.  As far as NF's go, she was STTN before the 4 mo SR....grrrrr.  Now she's wide awake at 4 am talking and playing then by 5 am she starts fussing/crying and wants to eat to go back to sleep.  She could easily go 4 hours between feeds but due to naps being so short it doesn't work so great.  Also, we just got some baby cereal to start this week.  Hoping that helps her too.  She will be 5 months on Dec. 9th.  Do you think we need to push again to 2 hr 15-20 min?  The more I push the harder it is for her to fall asleep it seems.  I'm so lost!!!!

[Kellyjs]

Sorry I think I missed your post  . Please accept my apologies.

I do think she might need a little more A time. Last time she had 30mims naps and we extended it was better wasn't it? It's around now they like to extend by 15mims every few weeks and it's hard to keep up! Most of the time it seems she's waking happy? And you're managing to get her back off eventually which leads me to think an extension is in order.

The fact she's trying to wu early in the morning as well makes me think that first A needs extending too. How do you fancy trying the extension by 15mins then trying a bit of w2s around 20mins after she falls asleep wdyt? I know you've tried it before but another round won't hurt. I think if we get a good first nap in it might help you later on in the day.

Do remember solids aren't for helping them sleep through. Actually they do the opposite as they fill up on them and don't take as much milk which is nutritionally better and more calorie dense. I've seen it so many times where mummas rush to start solids thinking it'll help them sleep through and it actually gets worse! Just something to bear in mind ok? I know you're just planning on cereal, but try it an hour after a milk feed and preferably in the morning and not at night or evening as it might cause disturbed nights due to wind xx

How to address habitual wakings (w2s and other methods)

[lhanson7251]

Here is todays EASY, since pushing her she def is acting like she wants even more but I'm trying not to push to fast.  The W2S don't work but I think I may have luck with just holding down her legs at the 30 min mark. 

woke 6:50
nap1 9:05-9:46 rocked back to sleep and back to bed from 10:15-11:15!!!
feed 11:30
nap 2 1:33-2:03 (took 10 min to fall asleep, played/talked) woke happy, wouldn't resettle
feed 2:45
nap 3 4:15 (took 15 min to fall asleep, no crying)

Is it crazy for her to be able to handle close to 2 hrs 30 min of A time at this age?  She wasn't interested at all in the oatmeal so we will be waiting a bit for that.  Next month we will start letting her play with some table food as we do BLW mostly.  She very interested in OUR food but I want to wait just a tad longer.

[Kellyjs]

No not crazy at all 

I do wonder as it's been extended so far that perhaps a little OT has crept in? It's either that or she's trying to extend close enough to hit the 3-2? All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[lhanson7251]

Well overall I'd say it's going better.  She still isn't taking a proper nap by herself but I'm at least able to extend the first one and she's dropped the 4th nap since we've been able to push the A time! YAY!!!!!  She's also stopped waking to eat at the 2:00-5:00 hours (it was always random).  Now she wakes at 5:30-6 but is not crying out but putting herself back to sleep.  Last night she actually STTN 7:30-7:15!!!!!!!  We are still getting 30-45 min naps for the second nap and she won't resettle.  So I need to work on that still.  I think she may need more A time but I'm trying to extend slowly bc she easily gets OT.  Here is the EASY from the last two days.

woke 7:15
nap 1-9:30 sleep 9:45-10:30 extended 10:45-11:30
feed 11:45
nap 2- 1:25 sleep 1:30-2:15
feed 2:45
nap 3- 3:55 sleep 4:30-5 (I had to end up rocking her to sleep bc she was OT from the short 2nd nap)
feed 5:30 just a snack to get her to bedtime
feed 7:15 bed 7:45 nf 5:30

woke 7:10 wouldn't take a full feed since she ate at 5:30
feed 9:15 4 oz
nap 1- 9:30-10:00 extended 10:30-11:30
feed 11:45
nap 2-1:25 sleep 1:40-2:18
feed 3:00
nap 3- 4:15 sleep 4:30-5:00
feed 5:30
feed 7:00 bed 7:30
STTN!

I think she may be alot like her brother when it comes to sleep.  They both were chronic 30 min nappers, and my son dropped naps very early.  He did the 2-1 transition right after his 1st bday and when he did two naps the morning nap was usually the only sure thing the pm nap was typically around 45 mins.  She doesn't show tired signs at all, only OT signs which aren't helpful at all. HA  I think our best bet is to keep going forward slowly to get to the 3-2 around 6 months.  I figure I can add A time every week this month to get her to 3 hours by 6 months. WDYT???

[Kellyjs]

Wow, yay! Bet that sleep felt great for you both 

I think you've got a good plan there. Yes, I do think that second nap needs pushing out by the looks of it. They do like to keep us on their toes don't they?! Xx

[lhanson7251]

Well we were doing beautifully for about 2 weeks on a 2 hr A time.  She was having 2 1.5 hr naps and a 30 min evening nap.  But now she's waking 30-45 mins into the nap, talking/playing for 15-30 min then sleeping for another 30-45 min.  Which in turn gets her OT for the next nap.  So I assume we need to push the first A time again?  She will be 6 months on 1/9.

[Kellyjs]

Yes definitely try and push the A time. I'd add 15mins onto the first two A times, hold for a few days then we can reassess. Remember they like their A time pushing quite a bit now, by 6/6.5mo the average is 3hrs A! Not saying you jump to this yet, but see the difference?

You might need to cap the last nap further too and they usually need that last A reducing if it's a shorter nap. It's all in that 3/2 transition link I posted before xx