Can you help me gently sleep train?

[4isstillnighttime]

Hi, I've got I think 3 threads going about my poor little baby. I think it's desperation!! But I think I have to start sleep training him. I was hoping not to because when I did it with my toddlers (with shhh pat) I found it incredibly traumatic and I don't think I could cope with that again. The thing is....this baby almost never cries, he is incredibly content....and because of that (and I think because screaming babies gives me actual flash backs to my PND after the twins) I just cannot cope with him crying. A bit if a whinge is fine, but not the whole thing. I think I would almost rather not do it at all and BF a hundred times a night. And I have twin toddlers so am keen not to disrupt their (dreadful!) sleep any more than I have to. And it is all worse because he will only sporadically take a dummy so the crying is worse.

Currently he has most naps in the sling. I try for one a day in the cot. Our wind down routine is nappy change, sleeping bag, dummy, music on. I can't bear PUPD as I find it really unsettling and baby seems to get even more wound up with shh pat, firm hand, anything  like that. The only thing that works is stroking his forehead, and even that only works sometimes. I often (usually!) cave and either feed him to sleep or pop him in the carrier.

At bedtime even if he falls asleep feeding I wake him up before I put him down. He either settles himself and sometimes he needs a dummy. At night I aim to feed every 3 hours but I am tired and run down and often I fall asleep feeding him so then I wake up an hour later but don't know where we are. If I stay awake and hold it together he goes down again quite easily but wakes v early.

I think he is getting OT as he is a nosy Parker and is sleeping less well in the sling. He is poorly at the moment but I need a strategy and, if I'm honest, some hand holding. I can feel the black wings of despair beating over my shoulder.....

Thank you!

[becj86]

Happy to help - can you run through the basics - age, temperament, current routine, medical conditions, current night wakings?

[4isstillnighttime]

Oh thank you so much!! Am totally at the end of my tether!

He is 20 weeks. Has a cold and a rash at the moment, and had a tongue tie divided at birth. Still has a lip tie but feeds well, doesn't really (in general) feed for comfort and he isn't mad keen on his dummy.

His temperament is probably Angel with a bit of textbook. He is a delight and a doll. But his sleep is rotten!! I have had to do loads of AP as I have twins as well and am on my own a lot of the time. So most of his naps have been in my sling. He also has to fit in around them a bit.

Our EASY is all over the place but yesterday....

WU 5:30 (twin 1 woke him)
Napped 7:30-8:15 in his cot
Napped 10:05- 12 in the sling
Napped 2:15-3 in his cot then I spent 45 mins trying to resettle him. His eyes were closed the whole time but he would seem to settle then cry again. Not sure really if he was awake or asleep!
Tried for a CN at 5, 5:30 and 6 then gave up and put him to bed at 7.
NW 10, 12, 2, 4. I fell asleep feeding him at 4 and when I woke at 5 he was awake but don't know how long for.

To go to sleep in his cot I change his nappy, turn the lights off, put him in a sleeping bag, cuddle a bit then put him down. I give him his dummy (he usually takes it out to play with!), kiss him, say goodnight and walk out. V occasionally he will go to sleep then. If he cries (upset cry) I go back in, put dummy back and kind of jiggle him in his cot a bit while I shhhhh. Usually works quite well. At night though ONLY BF will do. I often fall asleep feeding him, wake up in the chair with him asleep on my lap, pop him back in his cot and he wakes up either straight away or as soon as o have gone back to sleep.

He isn't swaddled, and he has a lovey but isn't particularly interested in it. He will only use a dummy when he is really sleepy - think it interferes with his smiling and chatting and flirting too much!!

Thanks again!!

[becj86]

Ok, so at 20 weeks, his A time should be more like 2:30 or so. He's giving an UT nap from 2:15 A time off a 2hr nap so I'd increase that and that should help with the early morning waking. Once you know he's got the right A time, we can see if the short naps in the cot are a matter for ST. I don't necessarily think so but given he went nearly 2hr off a 45min nap, he's definitely needing more A time before you can think of ST.

Obviously you're able to be flexible with his day, so that's great. I'd say where you can, just go with the flow and try to keep A times up around 2.5hr. Naps in the sling are fine while you're getting those A times sorted - ST is much easier when you have a sold routine and you have his body clock on your side

NWs I would hope should settle once the day routine falls into place. Often that will happen, so how about increasing those A times and seeing how he's going in 2-3 days?

[4isstillnighttime]

Brilliant. I could kiss you!!

I'll give it a shot and report back at the weekend.

[4isstillnighttime]

Can I ask a stupid question....if I get a 30 min OT nap and can't resettle, what do I do then? Let him nap again as soon as he is ready or wait a decent interval? Only just managed to get him to 2h A after an OT first nap, then he did a second one (although I managed to resettle him) and then a third!!

Thanks!!

[becj86]

Yep, so when aiming for 2:30, I'd go to 1:45-2hr A time off a 30min nap. Yes, you do need to reduce it a bit but its much easier to resettle OT than UT naps.

[4isstillnighttime]

Ok, perfect, thank you!! He has been poorly so it's all a bit up in the air, has managed some 2:30 reasonably well and can now get to 2:20 pretty easily. We are having long, chatty NW though and his day is still starting horribly early 

Will do a couple of days EASY and post them. Before he was ill I had 2 days logged:

WU 5
S 6:50 -7:30
S 9:30 - 10:45
S 1:45 - 3
BT 6:15
NW 10, 1, 3

WU 4:50
S 7:00 - 7:45
S 10:00 - 10:05, resettle 10:45-12:30
S 2:45 - 3:30
S 5:30 - 6
BT 7:30
NW 10, 1, 3-4:30
WU 5:30

[becj86]

We are having long, chatty NW though and his day is still starting horribly early 

^ This is a symptom of those A times not being long enough.

WU 5S 6:50 -7:30

WU 4:50S 7:00 - 7:45

Are you getting him up at 5? If so, I'd go with first nap not before 7:30 or you're just feeding that EW cycle. If you push a little too far, the worst that can happen is a couple of OT naps before he catches up with needing that A time anyway. He'll become much more OT from timid pushing of A time when he's clearly UT because he's never getting that restorative sleep.

[4isstillnighttime]

Ok, here is yesterday's...

WU 5:30
S 8-8:45
S 10-10:45 (baby sensory at 10:45, fell asleep on the walk there and I let him as vvvv expensive and want him to participate
S 1:15-3 (sling)
S 5:45-6 (car on the way back from nursery)
BT 7:15
NW 9, 11, 1 (fed), 3:30 (fed), 4:30 - 5:30 v restless, waking every 5 mins,
WU 5:30

How does it look? I am worried about that late CN but there isn't really any way I can get him to bed before about 6:45 because of the twins. He is still a bit wheezy and coldy and not feeding brilliantly which I guess isn't helping. I feel that it is better as although there were a lot of NW they were much shorter!!

[becj86]

WU is getting later, yes? You could maybe push that first A time a little more, that's an UT nap still there.

Those NW early on in the night are OT at BT which is likely because the day is a little too long but that may settle as the WU moves later.

[4isstillnighttime]

Ok, 2 more:

WU 5:30
S 8:10 - 8:40 (I decided this was OT so did a 2h A....)
S 10:40 - 11:40, resettled 12:00 - 12:40 (needed a lot of resettling though, but was in the pushchair and doesn't usually nap there).
S 3-5 - v restless, lots of resettling at 30 mins and at 45 mins but I had to wake him at 5 to go to nursery
BT 7:15ish
NW 8:15. 1:40-3:00, 5:30 (brother woke him but resettled them both which is a massive double win!!)

WU 7
S 9:30 - 11:10
S 1:40 - 3
S 5 - 5:30
BT 7:30
NW 11 (fed), 2:30-4 (fed twice in desperate attempt to get him back to sleep)
WU 6 - brother woke him.

I think I am going to have to aim for a 6 am wake up - the 7 was only possible because DH was away so didn't have to get up, and I had to bribe the twins with TV to keep them quiet which meant they had watched an hour of TV before breakfast  and then we were late for nursery. So I am going to aim for 6:00 WU and go from there. The danger is that he will go to sleep on the nursery drop off but hopefully not.

He is really struggling to get to 2:30 A - if he is in a good mood today I will try and push it a bit but he is waking up tired from these restless nights. Does it sound ok?

[becj86]

Looking better with that longer A time - naps are longer and unbroken and NWs reduced so if you can stick with it, I'd do that.

What time is nursery drop off?

Thinking something like this might work for a couple of weeks before you increase A again:
6 - WU
8:30-10ish - nap
12:30-2ish - nap
4:30-5/5:15 - nap
6/7 (depending on CN length) BT

[4isstillnighttime]

All of those naps were in the sling though.....tried a cot nap this morning after 2:35 and he woke at 45 mins and wouldn't resettle....not sure whether to abandon cot naps for now until the NWs are sorted out and he is in a good routine? It really threw this morning out as he then fell asleep in the car after 1:30, woke up when we got to the park then fell asleep in the sling 45 mins later so I had to stay about an hour longer than I wanted to to get him at least 1:30 nap.

That schedule looks good though. Should I be waking him from naps now to keep to it or is that not the BW way?!

Thanks again!!

[becj86]

No, don't wake up from naps unless they're 2hr, as a general rule with babies of this age.

Ok, so he's unable to transition to another sleep cycle in the cot, am I right? If so, can you tell me how he gets to sleep in the cot? He's actually at an age where he will be as easy to sleep train as possible IMO, so best to grasp the opportunity before the 6month developmental leap. After that, its even more important that the environment in which he needs to transition to the next sleep cycle is the same as the environment when he fell asleep - this is why white noise that turns off after 45min is the height of uselessness, why putting baby down awake is important, so he's not fallen asleep on you then waking up in a strange location.

Once his body is used to sleeping at those times and for 1.5hr or so, then try putting him in the cot for a nap while he's drowsy but not quite asleep and just hold your hand on his chest and sing or shush (whatever works and is something that will work for you long term. What you do now could well be the thing that works for your child when he's 3 or 4 and sick or out of kilter due to moving house/changing day-cares or whatever else upsets little people.

I wouldn't suggest all naps in the cot though, as you still need him to sleep elsewhere so you're able to get out and about with your twins.