10 month old

[Nauvoo]

DD's routine is
Wake 6:10
Nap 9:45-10:15 we were out and about
Nap 1:30-3:45
Bed  7:30
This was our routine Sunday. Today was
Wake 7 (DD had a1.5 hr night waking from 12:30-2:15)
Nap 10:30-11:15
Nap 3-4:15
Bed 8
She went to bed so late tonight because she just wouldn't settle. It was intended to get her to bed at 7:30 but she was so unsettled.   My biggest issue right now is that it is really really hard to settle her for naps and bedtime.  The first nap of the day is easiest but it still takes me a lot of effort to get her to settle down.  She is usually fighting me and crying.  When she stops crying I can put her in bed and pat her a bit and she usually keeps those little eyes closed but if they pop open she'll either close them on her own or a bit of patting will do the trick.   I'd love some ideas to help her settle.  Night wakings are the worst!  I usually just sit by her crib with occasional patting.  Night wakings never take less than 1.5 hours!   Our wind down routine is into sleep sack,  lights out,  fan on,  sing some songs or shush whilst trying to get her to settle using patting.  It takes a LOT of effort!  Often leaving her OT! 

[beth33]

I'm having some troubles with my 10 mo, so maybe take this with a grain of salt! I'm no expert, and it may or may not help.

1.5 hours in the middle of the night sounds truly awful for the both of you! I'm so sorry you're having such tough nights. Your DD seems a bit old to be using the patting method of soothing to sleep. Have you tried other ways of getting her to fall asleep, ideally more independently? Something like PU/PD? Some info on it is here if you're not familiar with it: Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!.

Here's how I do it. With my DD, the PU part seems to be counterproductive so I just do PD. Hearing my voice seems to rouse her more so I tend to be pretty quiet. If she's crying while sitting or lying in her crib, I stay in the room but leave her be. Once she stands up I gently lay her back down and then step back again. I do this over and over again till she eventually stays lying down and drifts off. If she stands up but is quiet, I leave her be, and sometimes if she does that long enough I leave the room to give her a chance to settle in and fall asleep. If she gets distressed, I go back in.

[Nauvoo]

Great.  Thanks.  I may need you to hold my hand but it looks like it is what we really need.  I feels like our way past time!

[beth33]

Good luck! The first time you do PU/PD, it will probably feel like it's not doing any good and it may take LO a loooong time to fall asleep. If you stick with it, it should take less and less time for LO to drift off as she gets more practice falling asleep without anyone actively interacting with her. You can do this!

[Nauvoo]

Thanks.  We have done something like this in the past with the extremely long night wakings.  The night before last it took dh 20 min to get her to sleep and only 10 last night.  We'll see how naps go today!

[Nauvoo]

Naps are gong terrible today. In true fashion this afternoon nap is the hardest.  It's been an hour and I've stepped out for a breather.  Do I just get her up?  Do what I can to get her to sleep?  She took a short nap this morning too!  Not sure I'm cut out for this btw.

[beth33]

It can be really, really hard. It's like the perfect storm of tough conditions - as a mom, you're already overtired and frustrated and probably less patient than usual, and listening to a baby cry enhances all that. I find that it helps to hold on to that hope that making changes will eventually result in things getting better. Unfortunately, consistency is really key, and it can take time for things to improve. Here's some info from here: How long will it take for PU/PD success?

"If you can do this, you can expect improvement over the course of days, and a dramtic change completed with in a few weeks.  Most commonly people experience a period of bad, worse, better, and then REALLY BAD again. This sudden increase in difficulty is referred to as regression.  If you can stick with the method, this period will last a day or two maximum.

We recommend that you commit to a full 2 weeks of constant attention to naps, bedtime, stimulation, EVERYTHING. Try to be home for all sleeps. It takes around 2 weeks for a routine to fully take place."

Here's some info on how long to do PU/PD from here: How long do I do PU/PD?

"To start a nap the general rule is you try for 40 minutes and if they never sleep you take a 5-10 min break outside the nursery and then continue trying again.  You would keep doing pu/pd until feed time arrives.

To extend a short nap you would do pu/pd for 40 minutes, take a break and try again until feed time arrives

If you never managed to get a good nap and have gotten your baby up to feed, watch you baby for tired cues and put your baby down when you see the cues."

You may want to consider whether your DD needs a tweak in her routine. I'm sorry to say that I am really not very good at figuring out routine changes! Here's my two cents, for what it's worth. It sounds like her first nap is usually one cycle and the second is a good length? Ideally, both naps would be longer than one cycle. Maybe you need a longer A time before her first nap? Have you tweaked her routine at all recently? If so, how did that go? Do you think your LO is suffering from being UT when you put her down for her first nap? Are you seeing tired cues and putting her down or are you going by her A time and the clock?

You also may want to consider whether your DDs activity time is too stimulating. I've never had a problem with this with my babies so I can't speak from experience, but some babies need less stimulation, particularly as they get towards the end of their A time.   

Be careful of her getting OT. As I'm sure you know, it's a terrible cycle to get into. Don't hesitate to use an early BT if you need to.

Finally, here's one more link you may find helpful. PU/PD Survival Strategies ~ How NOT to give up

[beth33]

Nauvoo, I was just talking to another member of the forum about my DD's routine, and she noted that many LO's at this age have one longer nap and one shorter one to fit them into the day. Sounds like your DD's short early nap isn't intrinsically problematic. It's still worth considering whether a tweak to her routine / A times might help, though. If she's UT, it would make sense that it'd take her longer to get to sleep.

[Nauvoo]

Thanks ladies.  I did stretch her A time to 4 hrs this morning with the intention of letting her sleep as long as she wanted. She slept for 2.25 hrs.  So I skipped the second nap altogether and she was obviously OT at bedtime and fussed for about 2 min and was out.  The second nap is just a beast! !!!!!!!! That I just skipped it altogether today.  And can I tell you the freedom,  the relief knowing I didn't have to try for a second nap today.  It was bliss.  I almost think a1.5 night waking would be worth it,  not really.  But you get the point. Thanks for the encouragement!

[beth33]

Nauvoo, I'm glad that your DD had such a good first nap today. I'd be really careful about purposely skipping naps and letting her get OT, though. The routine you set up for your LO is probably even more important than the technique you use to get her to sleep. Without a good routine, the best sleep training technique in the world won't get a baby to sleep well.

There's a saying that sleep begets sleep. An OT baby will not sleep as soundly or as long and won't fall back to sleep as easily (or at all). It's really unlikely that your DD only needs one nap at her age. I know it's hard but if you figure out the right A times, get her into a good routine, and teach her to sleep independently, then things get 1,000% easier and your DD will be able to get the rest she needs to grow and develop, and you won't have to struggle daily to get her to sleep. My DS went from a baby who refused to nap and melted down every night because he was so exhausted to a baby who I could put in his crib, kiss, and leave alone to drift off peacefully and nap for hours. It takes a lot of time, patience, and commitment, but it's worth it in the end. My DS is still a dream to put down for sleep years later because of the foundation we laid when he was a baby.

If you're feeling overwhelmed and like you can't commit to establishing your DD's routine right now, maybe take a few days to recoup. Make a plan about how you're going to get your DD on a good routine. This link may be helpful, though you'd have to modify the suggested timing and number of naps as your LO is much older than 4 months: Starting E.A.S.Y. at Four Months or Older. If you haven't ready any of Tracy Hoag's books, I highly recommend reading the sleep/routine related chapters of at least one. 

[trimbler]

Hi there, just following along, Beth has given some great advice already There actually seems to be a huge range of routines that 10mo LOs can handle, some even do need to be on one nap, although as Beth said, that's much less common. Either way it sounds like you're probably dealing with the 2-1 transition. If the first nap tends to be easier then you could try holding the A time at 3.5h but capping the nap to 20mins, for example, in the hope that she'll settle more easily for the afternoon nap. If you want to go down the short morning, long pm nap route, be aware that it can take a while to find a suitable A time before that second nap though. Or of course you can push that A time (which seemed to work really well ) and try for a CN later in the afternoon - many parents will APOP that one as it'll disappear eventually. EBT may be your best friend here, if she won't take the CN Anyway, here's a link which will explain things better than I can, have a read and see what you think...
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

Almost forgot to ask - any teething going on? Our worst NWs we're teething related...

[Nauvoo]

Thanks so much ladies.  I really appreciate it.  She slept amazing last night.  She even went down really really quickly without any help I'm certain because she was so tired.  Tonight she took about 10 min to get to sleep but dh only needed to go on once to settle.  Even with a short morning nap of 20 min is still really really hard to get her to take a second nap.  She needs it but there is just something about that darn second nap.  Even APOP takes 25-30 min after a short morning nap.   For these reasons I'm more likely to go for the afternoon CN routine.  Either way is just hard to get a second nap.  However,  she goes down like a dream for her first nap!   Bedtime is coming along.
Question,  if I an working with a first A time of 4 hrs then what kind of A time should I aim for after a CN in the afternoon?

[trimbler]

Hey that's great news Hmm I'm afraid mine were both short am nap, long pm nap LOs, so not much experience with late pm CN... But my rule of thumb is to consider the total A time over the whole day - do you think you have a feel for what she needs? Or conversely, how much sleep over 24h she needs to stay well rested and on an even keel? When deciding how long to keep her up after the CN, think about how long she's already been up during the day and use that to guide you, it will be different for every LO so I can't give you a rule, but I know one of the new mods for this board has a LO who transitioned early to one nap and I think they went the pm CN route so I'm sure she'll be following along very soon and be able to help more than I would

[Nauvoo]

Thanks.  I know she's an 11hr night kind of LO. If she gets 3 hrs of fat sleep her nights are significantly shorter obviously!  So I think a guess on overall sleep for the day would be about 13 hrs-ish in 24 hrs.

Tomorrow will be a short morning nap as we'll be at church all morning so she'll have a little nap at church and a longer pm nap.   Today was her third day of just one nap. So of course she was super tired at bedtime and went down really easy.  She slept very well last night too so I'm crossing my fingers she's no too OT to sleep well tonight!

[trimbler]

Wow you may well find that she's almost there with the one nap, although I suspect she'll need a few catch up days. Just look out for OT behaviour and in particular the naps and/or nights getting shorter, which could be a sign of OT, and then try to get a CN in somewhere if you can. Amazed that you can still get her to nap at church - we always found that a struggle