Author Topic: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please  (Read 4772 times)

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Offline creations

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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2016, 14:33:34 pm »
Really it's amazing you have come so far without any look into routine :)
My thoughts are that now he is getting a better sleep he actually needs less, there are times when appearing tired can be because toddlers are well rested (do you get that tired/dopey feeling if you have had plenty of sleep? or a lie in?).  This is likely to be the beginning of the journey to nap drop.  12.5hrs is not so bad, same as my DS had.
If you scroll down on this link there is some info about cutting the nap back a bit to increase A time to BT, it should help to maintain BT without it getting later.  Looks like he is extending his second A time by delaying sleep at BT so the chances are he needs a longer afternoon. I very much doubt you want to set BT at 10pm so instead you cap the nap 15 mins earlier and keep BT the same.  Then cut the nap by another 15 mins.  Making a 1.5hr nap, longer A time before BT and less resistance at BT.

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

Whilst it might seem like little sleep to be getting 10/10.5hr night and 2 hr nap totalling 12hr per 24 the nap in the middle of the day is highly restorative.  As example mine had 2hr nap and 10 hr night but eventually was reducing his night to 9hrs, yet still needed his nap meaning 11hrs sleep in 24 (or even less), when he finally dropped the nap he did something like 11-11.5hr night which extended over time to 12hr and stayed at 12hr from 2.5yo until 4./4.5yo.  At 5yo he is getting roughly 11.5hr.  What I'm saying is that the total hours sleep in 24 don't necessarily keep getting less and less, it can increase with nap-capping and nap-dropping and it can remain steady for a long period after the nap drop too - so don't panic :)

Looks like you usually have a set nap at 1.45pm, is there a reason there were a couple of days the  nap was not at this time?  Inconsistent time for naps can have an effect on sleep or settling to sleep.

Do we just push and accept there will be crying again or having managed previously do we take it that he needs the extra comfort? Dh wondered if us being there was distracting, but when he did leave the room J got really upset and then took longer to settle again so I'm not sure we're ready for that.
If you cap the nap 15 mins earlier (so max 1hr 45 for nap) this will make him more tired for BT. The restlessness should reduce, let's see hey?
Whilst you're asking though I would say you can give it a go to leave the room. You are *never* abandoning him so you do not need to feel guilty or mean doing this.  I would get him calm, give him a touch and say "night night, call if you need me" and get right out of the room. Put the chair outside.  Return as needed.  As it is you are already spending an hour in there, how much worse do you think it will get by leaving the room and returning when needed?  If you continue to sit he will continue to require you to sit, the longer you do it the more this habit will set in, making that next step out of the door will be harder for him.  Each time you return you can get him nice and calm and then leave. I would always say you are leaving and always say you will come back. When you go back in say "I'm here" or "I'm back", these words are reassuring.
One thing I did a few times when my DS needed me in the room a long time was wait until he was calm and then tell him I really needed the toilet, I told him I would come back after using the bathroom. Sometimes it can help if LO can imagine where you are, so going the bathroom (because they understand that need) or getting a cup of tea (because they've seen you do this before and picture it). Imagining mummy or daddy in a certain place doing a certain thing can be more comforting than imagining mummy 'gone'.  Often I would return to discover DS asleep - so as you DH said it can be a distraction to have you there and yet LO may not want to be the one that says it's ok for you to go.

What do you think?


Offline evwright

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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2016, 15:14:09 pm »
Hi, thanks for such a great response, I've been working my way through it and all of our routine to have a think about where to start. J has seemed very tired like when we went to one nap - almost falling asleep in his lunch, but you are probably right about the 12 hours being enough. I guess because it is at the lower end that we were trying for a little more and have forgotten about time passing as he is now 21 months! We have also had so many nws previously that we are very aware of dropping below his sleep needs very quickly and easily.

Checking back through his routine I also realised that for a few days nap he got 10 or 15 minutes over the 2hrs so we will begin by making sure it never tips over 2 and see how we go at night before capping further. Thanks for the link on dropping the nap and it's good to know we may get more sleep or at least not any less when we start.

The 1.45pm naps just happened to coincide, we've never actually got as far as a set time for naps and bt due to such poor sleep and especially the long nws that left us all exhausted. Now he is sleeping so much better we can try and get a set routine in place. For what will be a 14hr day should we aim for even A times either side of the nap or do they tend to need one side or the other to be a bit longer? He seems to wake naturally at 7.50 atm, but we will look to bring that a little earlier soon and then again in the summer to get things in place well before he starts nursery in September. For now we would probably go with his natural wake up to get the routine in place then in the short term aim to be up at 7.30, nap at 1 and into bed at 9 to give him that bit longer time to settle at night. Does that seem a good starting point? Some days he has happily taken a 2hr nap after 5hrs A, but then yesterday after his short night he bounced around looking ut after A of 6.5hrs! perhaps it was second wind instead...

The last few days we had two short nws one night and a couple of 9.5hr nights, but he popped back up to 10 last night and generally he is still sttn  :) We have gone for a more gradual approach as he was still teething, but that tooth popped through last night and we are hoping for a break before canines (he's been a fairly late teether all along).

So we have had the chair outside the room since yesterday's nap with the door open. He only needed a little help at nap, he was running round and bouncing like an idiot so I went in to calm him down and remind him it was time to sleep not trampoline  ::) At bt he did kick off with dh until he stood up instead of sitting, then went off quickly. I think we exhausted him at the park this morning as for today's nap dh said he didn't even look for him, just put his head down and that was it. We'll move completely out of sight for tomorrow's nap and then we thought we would shut the door a couple of days after that. Does that sound sensible? His cot is so close that if the door is only pulled to he can get to open it so I don't think we'll have the option to have it just open a little.

Slightly off topic, but have you any tips for the clocks changing? As we don't have set times quite there yet and J happily does long A times we are considering cold turkey - just waking him at the usual time (so a short night), letting him go to nap slightly early and then the same at bt depending how he looks. Complete madness or might it just work? x

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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2016, 22:03:09 pm »
20 mins tonight, no fuss and the way he chose to lay down he didn't see me the whole time  :) Now please tell me that the yellow, plastic dumper truck currently grasped tightly in his tiny, sleeping hand is not going to be his one true lovey  ::) ;D

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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2016, 14:25:38 pm »
I have just sat with cake and tea watching my little boy go to sleep on the monitor!  :)  ;D He settled himself last night with no help or sight of me so hopefully we are well on our way. We'll no doubt be back for setbacks, but right now we just can't believe how far we've come.

We'd be really grateful for advice on getting the routine right, bringing his day forward and dealing with clock changes. Also, we go away in just over 3 weeks. Do you think it is worth trying to get him used to settling in the travel cot at home or would that be more confusing than just going straight to it while in a different environment? We did wonder about doing a trial run at his mamma's in a couple of weeks just to see what happens, but he gets very excited when visiting there and we have struggled to get him to sleep there previously even in arms.

Beloved dumper truck is in hand - now how do I cut that into pieces for first day at nursery??? x

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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2016, 21:34:01 pm »
Ooh, lots to catch up on. Let me try to answer a few of these questions as I read through :)

Now he is sleeping so much better we can try and get a set routine in place.
I really do recommend moving directly to set nap and BT, LOs seem to do much better on set times after 12 months.
I'd start with exactly where you are now, nap at 1.45pm and BT whatever it is you're doing (sorry I'm not on the right page to check back your EASY times. Pick whatever is the normal time for BT and stick there).  The A times either side do not need to be even at all, mine did a huge first A time and very short second A time.  Some do better on shorter first A and longer second A...so start with what you have regardless of the A times because it's working pretty well (and any previous suggestions regarding capping or shifting nap take as it being the 1.45 nap and set BT - hope that makes sense).

Some days he has happily taken a 2hr nap after 5hrs A, but then yesterday after his short night he bounced around looking ut after A of 6.5hrs! perhaps it was second wind instead...
I wouldn't change anything based on one day, if he consistently refuses, bounces, short naps or anything else which disturbs sleep then it's time to tweak.

We'll move completely out of sight for tomorrow's nap and then we thought we would shut the door a couple of days after that. Does that sound sensible?
Sounds like a plan. Remember with things like needing to stand up instead of sit, it's fine to do that to reassure...and then sit back down. He is not the one in control of where you are, you are.  He will understand now that when he needs you you will come but that he doesn't get to dictate where you are.  You're all doing great :)

Slightly off topic, but have you any tips for the clocks changing? As we don't have set times quite there yet and J happily does long A times we are considering cold turkey - just waking him at the usual time (so a short night), letting him go to nap slightly early and then the same at bt depending how he looks. Complete madness or might it just work?
Personally I wouldn't move 1hr in one go but some people do.  My 5yo still finds it hard to shift an entire hour in one go. Last clock change I forgot to do a 30 min change the day before (bad mother!) resulting in OT night screaming. It was only a couple of bad nights but I'd rather avoid it.
At your DS's age I would likely do a 15 min change each day for 4 days to achieve the hour. Write down the times for everything (meals, naps and BT) to keep to your changes.  or do 30 min change hold for a second day then another 30 min change.

Now please tell me that the yellow, plastic dumper truck currently grasped tightly in his tiny, sleeping hand is not going to be his one true lovey
Very funny :)  There was a night mine was screaming for a spanner in his sleep, he didn't stop until I put the spanner in his hand, I took a photo of him holding it of course. He was about 3yo then.

I have just sat with cake and tea watching my little boy go to sleep on the monitor!
Wow Wow Wow!!!! Wonderful!!!!
Oh goodness, what a lovely feeling I got reading that :)  What a contrast to walking him up and down, up and down!
Really pleased for you and I hope you enjoyed that cake.

We'd be really grateful for advice on getting the routine right, bringing his day forward and dealing with clock changes.
clock change covered above. Set naps (do it now) covered above.
Changing routine in readiness for nursery I would leave for now. Wait until you are past the clock change, past your trip.
If you find the routine right off and you need a  "getting back on track" thread after your trip I would suggest you use that as a good opportunity to change the routine.  Don't worry if you don't want to change it then, you can do it much close to September, no problem, it isn't going to take long so really it's kind of down to when you want to do it.

Also, we go away in just over 3 weeks.
I wouldn't bother using the travel cot at home or doing a trial run at granny's.  When you go away he is going to know he is in a different place, reassure him, be prepared to help him more if needed, do not worry at all about props or going backwards with what you have achieved. When you come home do not continue the props just go right back to how you are now, eating cake, drinking tea and responding when needed. He will know he is back at home and home rules apply.

Beloved dumper truck is in hand - now how do I cut that into pieces for first day at nursery???
Goodness me, you're testing my creativity there aren't you :) Erm...dump truck wheel key ring attached to his book bag  :D


Offline evwright

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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2016, 16:01:19 pm »
Hi Creations,

Thank-you thank-you thank-you for your warm support and for wading through my lengthy posts to give all that great advice. We really can't believe how far we have come and just need to keep putting everything we have learned into practise when we hit new bumps in the road to sleep. BT is still a little more difficult than nap and we had a horrible nw last night (we assume a nightmare), but we are almost there. Jacob is settling himself wonderfully and sttn most of the time now, dumper trick is in hand and the tea and cake have tasted brilliant :)

I think we'll give a little tweak to routine to just move his day forward a little (after clock change as you suggested) then prepare for nursery late in the summer. I think we will probably be nap capping before too long as he is sleeping a little longer at night and we are just going to run out of hours in the day. Thanks for the link and especially for taking the fear out of even approaching the nap dropping thread after spending so long trying to get him to nap well  ::)

It really has meant so much to have you there and I love thinking about the photo of your little one sleeping, spanner in hand  ;D

Oops, 2 hours plus again, better go and wake him x

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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2016, 19:01:29 pm »
You are most welcome.
I do enjoy a happy wean :)

...and before you know it you'll be sharing your experience with others in the BW community, holding their hand and telling them it will all be okay :)  You're the GW expert now  :D


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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2016, 19:03:02 pm »
Maybe you'd like to share your success story here?
Success Stories for Sleep Training (please post link here)


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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2016, 17:32:41 pm »
Thought I would just provide a quick update before posting on the success stories thread. We have been out of the room for just over a week. A bad nightmare a few days ago led to a slight regression at bt with him being really clingy, but with some extra comfort he has still been settling himself to sleep while we are downstairs and we haven't got caught back in his room :) Generally he is still STTN and wakings have been far easier to settle than before st. Now if we could just stop the messy nappies at or just after he lies down for naptime...  ::)

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Re: Starting gw today - advice and hand holding please
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2016, 21:16:02 pm »
Great update - well not the part about the nappies but the rest - so pleased for you :)