4hr EASY transition for 5 month old

[Alexian28]

My daughter naturally transitioned herself to a 4 hour EASY and has special needs, so everything was on a different timetable.... so I forgot that I might need to help my son get to a 4 hour EASY.  I realize looking back that he's sown signs for awhile and I just haven't noticed.  So now I'm ready to help him transition.  He's 5.5 months old (yes I know, I was supposed to do this 1.5 months ago!) I'll need daycare's help as he's there all day, which I know they're willing to do.  I'll be following Tracy's advice on the clock-watching and feeding on a more strict schedule for a couple of weeks until we can get him transitioned.

1.  Right now he takes 6 bottles a day of about 5oz formula (5:30am, 9:00am, 12:30pm, 4pm, 6:30pm, 10:30pm) and he spits up.  A lot.  No reflux that we can tell, we've tried a couple of different formulas including Nutramigen and nothing makes it better.  Just a happy spitter.  Since he'll drop a bottle and I'll have to make up the volume and give him 6oz bottles, will he just spit up more? Should I start giving him some solids? 

2.  He's always been a very low sleep needs child, and naps are disturbed by the smallest thing.  After reading the 4hr EASY section in the book I'm hoping that his naps will improve after getting him onto the 4 hr routine.  Daycare can't do PU/PD for an hour though trying to extend his naps.  Since he's currently happy with his 2-3 hours (total!) of naps, sometimes only 2 1-hour naps, can I not stress out too much if he still doesn't nap better after getting him to a 4hr EASY?  He's so nosy and afraid of missing something.  Even at home when it's quiet I'm lucky if I get 3 1-hour naps.  Plus we just got past the "wow rolling is the best thing ever so I'm never going to sleep" phase. He just learned to sleep on his tummy a week or two ago, but if he wakes and he's on his tummy, naptime is basically over.

ETA: we might also be reaching the 3-2 nap transition, AND we don't have daylight savings time here so it's already pretty bright by 5am.  He has dark curtains but not blackouts.

[becj86]

ETA: we might also be reaching the 3-2 nap transition

Precisely what I was thinking.

What does his day look like with 2 x 1hr naps? Is that at daycare? Wonder if you could just get them to jump to a 3hr A time or some such - may be a bit much but he must be managing that amount of A time on shorter naps to get through a whole day with 2 x 1hr naps. If you expect a painful time for 1-2 weeks, you'll then be at 'average' for his age in 1-2 weeks and can tweak from there. If you were to do the 4hr EASY transition as per the book, you'll take 2 weeks to get your by-then 6 month old to a routine that suitable for a 4 month old and then fall further behind as you keep on with the slow increases all the while putting him into a OT/UT loop and confusing both of you.

[Alexian28]

On bad days he'll nap. 730 to 830 and 230 to 330 at daycare. At home sometimes we get a better nap and sometimes not. Plus we're often on the go doing errands and things, and he sleeps better in the car seat/car. Then is up till bedtime. That boy can stay awake forever... and is happy about it! Like my daughter, he has never "transitioned" in increments so I could probably just jump to a 4hr EASY with 5 6oz bottles and he'd be OK.  Maybe I should go read the 6 month chapters and just aim to be at that in 2 weeks? I don't recall anything special about 6 months besides solids and 3-2 transition. My daughter is almost 4 so it's been awhile!

[becj86]

I think something like this may suit (shift based on WU or not as you desire.

6 - WU
9 - Nap
2:30 - Nap
7 - BT

That's 3hr A times presuming 1.5hr naps which may be a bit optimistic but will space his shorter naps better anyway.

How are his nights?

[Alexian28]

Nights are fine besides the ridiculous early WU. I dove right in today with mixed success. Was up at 5, I fed him at 5:30. Gave daycare an "ideal" schedule of nap 730-930, eat 930, nap 1130-130, eat 130, nap 330-5 when I pick him up. Asked them to not feed him closer together than 4hrs unless he just couldn't wait and to not wake him to eat in the off chance he sleeps. Keep in mind he never taken a nap longer than 1hr at daycare. Did awesome in the am, napped 730-9, bottle at 930. Tired at noon, slept from 1215-3pm!! Jeez! Ate at 315. 30 min catnap @ 615. Bedtime bottle at 7, asleep at 730. DF 1030. The super long nap worked great because I could put him down a bit later and try to shift him away from these 430am wake ups. I also offered 4oz extra formula over the day. He drank every bit and handled the bigger bottles quite well. We'll see what tomorrow morning brings.

[becj86]

Looks like a good first day, FX for tonight

[Alexian28]

He still woke up at 445am. PLEASE HELP ME. I cannot wake up at 4:45 the rest of my life. I cannot keep subsiding on 4 hours of sleep a night. I'm about to fall apart. My house is falling apart and my marriage is falling apart, my work is suffering, and my daughter is suffering because he wakes her up. My entire household is ruined because of this monster who DOES NOT SLEEP. I've put him to bed earlier, later, changed DF time, changed naps, had his fan on, fan off, white noise, delta brainwave sleep CD (the only thing that got him to sttn again), given him more activity before bed, less activity before bed, I've left him to lay in bed he never, ever goes back to sleep. Ever. I never get him up until he cries. Sometimes it's 5 minutes, a couple of times it's been an hour. I have tried everything over the last 2 months.

[becj86]

Have you tried feeding at that early WU? Does he then go back to sleep - totally reasonable at this age to still be feeding twice in a night.

I see you have tried many things - have you stayed consistent with one thing for 2 weeks?

[Alexian28]

I don't feed him. He's sttn since 2.5 months old. We've done what we can do consistently but with the weather changing, the fan goes on or off. If he's exhausted and can't stay up, then he can't stay up. It started with his 4 month sleep regression then having to be umswaddled. I know what's causing it. But I can't swaddle him. I can't prevent him from rolling over. I can't keep his hormone levels from decreasing at 4am. We're trying w2s now though I don't believe in it, it never worked with my daughter. He was up at 5am this morning again. We had to just ride out her 5am wake ups but that was for a couple of weeks, not months. It was for the exact same reasons: no swaddle and rolling over. Though back then we lived in a place with daylight savings time so it wasn't full daylight at 5am. I can't "fix" what I know is causing his wake ups.

[becj86]

Well, there are times that a baby will need feeding even if they have previously slept through without a feed. That might be worth a shot.

How is he behaving when he wakes?

[Alexian28]

He wakes and babbles to himself. We don't get him until he cries. Varies between 5 and 30 minutes. After we get him up he's super happy. We keep trying to shift his schedule so we wait to feed him. He can wait up an hour to eat. So it's not like he's starving. And he's super wide awake so it's not like he'll go back to sleep I think. I could try it. Or maybe I should stop dream feeding him and just let him wake on his own so he eats later in the night? At night now the only way I can get him to go to sleep is to lay him in his crib while drowsy and lean over him in a convoluted fashion so that he can't see my eyes or kick my arms, holding his arms down. Bedtime is an hour long battle (that includes book and bedtime cup) because I can't stay in there long enough. I injured my back a few months ago and it's just getting worse and worse having to bend over the crib plus my arms fall asleep. I can't spend enough of a chunk of time at once to get him to fall all the way asleep. And in holding his arms down I'm still giving him a sleep prop. Might as well rock him to sleep. I feel like a total failure. I did fine with my daughter and I can't figure out how I'm screwing up. I got him back to sleep for his am nap today pretty quickly, solid 2hrs total, then 2 20 min naps the entire rest of the day. My daughter I just laid in her crib and she fell asleep. I have zero idea how to parent. I've read Tracy's books over and over. I feel as if I know what to do but I obviously don't.

[becj86]

He's obviously a different person from your daughter. It sounds like he may be low sleep needs... he's developing fine and happy during the time he's awake? If so, maybe we need to come up with a  routine that suits him better. The happy early wakings can be that he's not getting enough A time first thing in the morning. I think if you are prepared to, you could probably  set naps at say 10 or 10:30 and 3 or 3:30 and see if that helps him shift his day. He's unlikely to sleep later in the morning due to feedi mg later but napping later may well make a difference.

[Alexian28]

I can try. I would need to head to daycare super early because he often falls asleep in the car seat. I'll give the feeding thing a try for a bit and see what happens. I didn't do his DF last night because I fell asleep and he slept all the way to 4:20. Offered 4oz, still hungry, gave another 2 and he was happy. Left him in the crib calm and happy. Talked to himself about 20 min then cried so I had to go hold his arms for 20min then he fell asleep.
Slept for an hour. So I'll try to feed him at 7 as if we starting our day then. Obviously the DF doesn't work for him if he sleeps to the same time without it!

He's definitely low sleep needs. Even at a month old he could stay up for hours. The slightest thing stimulates him which just makes it all harder. Developing fine, happy as a clam all day. His morning A time is generally 2.5-3hrs, I could push it out to be more eaeas. So I'd be aiming the first few days for:

5am Wu
530 bottle
7am solids
930am bottle
1030-1 sleep
130 bottle
330-5 sleep
630 bath, book, bottle, bed
730 asleep

Does that sound about right? I know the goal is to have a roughly 12.5hr day so we'd work towards that.

ETA he's a big kid, born at only 7lb but grew super fast and was at >95% height and weight by 2 months and stayed there. He drinks about 28oz formula a day. More than that and he spits up constantly. I don't know if this affects anything. My daughter was tiny.

[Alexian28]

Last day so far:
730pm asleep after fighting 45 min
1010pm screaming, resettled quickly
420a wake up, 5oz
450-520 try to get him back to sleep holding arms down in crib
630a wake up
700a 6oz
900a straight to sleep.
945 wake up. Took 15 min to resettle, slept 2 minutes, 10 min to resettle, slept 5min, 20 min to resettle, slept 45 min.
1145 wake up 6oz
2pm down easy
245 wake up. Still trying to resettle him after 15 min, screaming the entire time.

I couldn't hang upside down in the crib anymore trying to settle him so dh is in there. After 15 more min of screaming we gave up.

Also you asked earlier about doing something at least 2 weeks, he's at daycare m-f all day so I can only do 2 days worth. Daycare tries their best to keep him on the same routine as me but they don't have an hour to resettle a screaming baby.

[becj86]

I think given you know he's LSN, I would avoid resettling - he *can* get through the sleep cycles so I think just know that you're giving him the opportunity to sleep at appropriate times and let him self-regulate. If you keep it consistent, that will allow him to take the sleep he needs when its offered.