Author Topic: 11 weeks old - OT baby  (Read 1509 times)

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Offline Mommy88

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2016, 08:48:05 am »
Thanks again, nowI'm trying different A times as you said to see if they work... It seems like I'm spending my whole days in a dark room with LO, sometimes I feel so discouraged... But I have no choice, if I want him to learn to sleep, isn't it?!

I have some doubts about the swaddling: in the first weeks I swaddled DS with a Aden&Anais Easy Swaddle and it worked great. He didn't wake up at night, never, and this affected the starting of breastfeeding: my ped said to let him sleep, but then he lose some weight, instead of gaining it, and therefore I stopped swaddling him. Another reason is that the summer became hotter and hotter, and he sweated a lot in the swaddle.
Stopping the swaddling, he started to wake up at night, usually twice, and his weight increased (now he is 5 kg, 3 months today).
Sometimes I have swaddled him again, in the fussiest (and freshiest) nights, and he slept better. In the meanwhile, he outgrew the Easy Swaddle and I bought the Bubbaroo Joey Pouch: this is very much lighter and allows the movement of the limbs. It worked, but not so much like the previous one. Now he has started putting his hands in the mouth, as self soothing: yesterday he woke up from his nap and first cried a bit, then, when I entered the room, I found him sucking his hands. I've tried another kind of swaddle too, the Ergobaby one, which keeps his hands near his chest, but he can set his hand free and put it in his mouth. I don't know if I have to try a classic swaddle system, with the arms straight (like the Aden&Anais Easy Swaddle) or if I have to let him move his hands near his face if he wants to... In this moment he has just awaken from his nap and he's not crying, but just "talking", and I think it's because he can self soothe (now he's wearing the Joey Pouch).

Any suggestion about it? Here in Italy no one swaddle his babies, so I have to find every information here on the Internet.
Thanks again!!

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2016, 17:49:06 pm »
It seems like I'm spending my whole days in a dark room with LO, sometimes I feel so discouraged...
Sometimes we find it might be better for mum if they work on one or two naps per day rather than all of them. When mine was short napping I did try to get him back into a good routine but I also accepted he was just in a phase of short naps and I worked our day around his 40 min naps so that we got out to the park for some air and sun rather than spend the entire day shush patting in a dark room, which, tbh can end up quite miserable.
Please don't feel you have to 'fix' everything in one go. If you need to get out then do.

I do think the shorter second and third a times may help though so if anything try to get those A times down and see if sleep is better.

I'm sorry I am no help with the various swaddles on the market, my DS was only swaddle for naps and even then only for the first 10 wks, I never bought any of the items you've mentioned, just used a baby blanket.
I know others in the community have experience with swaddles though.
Depending what sort of support you'd like you could post here for product info and recommendations or to hear what other people thought of a certain product:
Hoggwatch - Product Recommendations
or if you are not sure to use the swaddle of not then it's more of a sleep question so perhaps post here:
General Sleep Issues

You can continue this thread for support with routine and still post to another board for a different question.
To save you re-typing out the info you can perhaps copy and past into your new thread.


Offline Mommy88

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2016, 15:45:08 pm »
Hi again, I'm sorry if I couldn't answer before...!
Things are going better since I've tried the Miracle Blanket in the last days. LO really needs his arms to be still: this morning, after 30 minutes from the beginning of his nap, I looked at him and I saw him awakening. Then he looked around him for a few minutes and fell asleep again, all on his own; he woke up again after 1 hour, so we had a 1.5 hour nap without any help... A big success!!
I'm also trying to move his BT earlier: I've noticed he falls asleep after 1 hour from the end of the last feed (for example, if the last feed finishes at 8:00 he can't fall asleep before 9:00). I can do anything, but if this time is not passed, he can't relax...
In the next days I'll write down our EASY progress, let's keep in touch and thanks again!!! :D

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2016, 17:46:06 pm »
That's great news :) I do love to read a positive update :) Yay!


Offline Mommy88

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2016, 15:02:42 pm »
Hi again,
things are getting very mixed up... In the last 3 days, LO (now he is 15 weeks old) has been very fussy at nap time. He is always very quiet and happy during the day, but when I put him in the bedroom to sleep he starts to scream as soon as I swaddle him. I don't see any sleepy cue, he always seems the same, so I use the clock to "decide" when it's nap time, otherwise he gets OT very easily.
In the past, I've rocked him to calm him down, while patting his back and singing a lullaby, gradually reducing the movement, and putting him in the crib partially awake. Then I shielded his eyes, patting on his chest and keeping on with the lullaby, more and more slowly, until he fell asleep. The total time of this process was about 15-10 minutes.
Now he's become heavier and stronger, and he fights me, arching his back, and he really hurts my arm while I'm holding him, and my legs are aching too (I'm a tiny lady). I really don't know how to calm him down, also considering that he IS calm until I put in the bedroom to sleep: why does he become so upset every single time?
Yesterday he had 3x30 minutes naps, with only 1 resettling; today he skipped the second nap at all, there was no way to calm him down...  :'( Now he's sleeping but I'm sure he'll wake up again at the 30 minutes mark!
I'm afraid I created some bad habits and now I don't know how to fix them. In her book, Tracy used PU/PD with a baby aged like mine... Maybe starting now can be more effective than waiting more... But I'm also afraid I don't have the strength to deal with it.
Maybe I should go with the 4-hour routine, instead of the 3-hour one, and see what happens... I really don't know what to do!
Last week he seemed to sleep way better and now he looks like another baby!

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2016, 17:47:45 pm »
Oh, sorry to hear things have gone a bit off track.

It could be that your LO is moving towards the 4 month regression which is often a time of short naps and is always when Tracy suggested moving to the 4 hr EASY.
I remember you had some long A times - often at this age when we begin to see short naps it is because the A time needs to be increased as LO is older and can manage more time awake. What A time have you been working with recently?  is it different to what you were working with when he was doing the longer naps?

The refusal, screaming and back arching can be UT signs as well as OT signs (it really depends if you are giving super long A times or if they are a bit too short now).  I don't think there is need to move to PUPD but rather to have another look at your routine.
Can you post your recent EASY please?
And meanwhile if he is screaming and kicking as soon as you walk into the bedroom I suggest trying this, say to him "Oh, seems you're trying to tell me you aren't ready for a nap yet, sorry, let's go and do something else for a little while instead" take him back out of the room and have a little cuddle, a chat, a look out of the window together or a quiet play with a toy for 15 mins then try again. Remember to make a note of the trial time and when he actually falls to sleep.


Offline Mommy88

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2016, 16:53:55 pm »
Thanks again and again, you're always so kind! :)
Today's going a little better, I'll post our EASY routine as soon as I can.

In the meanwhile, I have a doubt about the resettling: DS wakes up after 30 or 45 minutes, crying (I think it's more a mantra cry than a real cry, but I'm not sure I distinguish them...). I pick him up and his crying gets louder, but just for a few seconds, then he relaxes in my arms.

Then, he gets more and more drowsy:
1. if I keep him in my arms, without moving, he doesn't fall asleep again, but just stays with a subtle split in his eyes. This can last for even 30 minutes, until the end of the nap time;
2. if I put him in the crib when he's drowsy, he stays for a few seconds, then shakes his head, fully open his eyes and starts crying again.
At the beginning of the nap I put him in the crib with his eyes opened, somewhere between the phase 2 and 3 described in the books, then I pat his chest, shield his eyes and he falls asleep. This technique doesn't work during the resettling...

So my question is: what do I have to do? Today I've tried 3 times to put him down, but when I saw he didn't fall asleep again I just held him in my arms until the feed time (and during these 30 minutes he never fell asleep again, but just stayed with his eyes slightly opened, as I said).
I think that in this way he rests a little bit more and that it's better than fully wake him... But maybe in this way I can create a wrong association between "sleeping" (he doesn't sleep but he is very close to sleeping) and being held? Maybe I can do something different?
Any advice is welcome!

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2016, 17:37:27 pm »
DS wakes up after 30 or 45 minutes, crying
Often 30 min naps indicate OT (but not always) whilst 45 min naps indicate UT (but not always) which is why we tend to look closely at the times of the routine throughout the day.
Changing the A time can many times help with 30 or 45 min naps but it's not really possible for me to say whether you need to increase or decrease your A times.

Another thing you can try is W2S.
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
If you have a look at naps option 1. This is where you begin shush/pat or adapted (can be patting chest hand over eyes or whatever you usually do to sooth) before he fully wakes instead of waiting for him to wake.  It can help LOs transition from one sleep cycle to the next.  I will say though it is likely harder when the A time is not appropriate.  If he is very OT or UT he may not respond well to this method.

If it was me I'd probably only do the holding thing a few times. Then I'd probably decide to either just get him up or get him back in his cot.  it's not something I would have continued with for every nap every day but rather something I might have done during teething or illness as more of a one-off.


Offline Mommy88

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2016, 07:24:47 am »
Yesterday

WU: 08.00
E: 08.23
A
S: 09.58 (WD from 09.45), awake 11.16, no help required
E: 11.36
A
S: 01.08, after 3 attempts to put him down (WD from 12.47), resettling failed, very fussy all the time, I keep him in my arms until feed
E: 02.39
A
S: 04.21 (WD from 04.06), awake 04.52, resettling failed, drowsy but awake in my arms until 05.30
E: 05.42
A
S: 07.18 (WD from 07.00), awake 07.54, I don't try to resettle
E: 08.42
A
BT: 10.33 (WD from 09.33), I put him in  the crib drowsy but awake at 10.00 but then he starts smiling and playing, I try to help him fall asleep leaving him in the crib but after 15 minutes he starts crying and I pick him up again

I'd really like to have an earlier BT, but whenever I start the WD he doesn't fall asleep before 10.30. In the morning he wakes at about 08.00-08.30, maybe I should wake him before? But I also think he needs to rest... Maybe I can move the last feed an hour before? But I'm afraid he won't eat enough... I have so many doubts!
Thank you very much!

Offline Mommy88

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2016, 09:59:51 am »
I've just had a convocation for substitute teaching, I have to start tomorrow morning... I can actually work just for one day and then stay at home (Italian laws), but tomorrow I must be at school at 9.20. It takes about 45 minutes to arrive there, so I'll have to BF my son at about 07.30, then I'll leave him with my mother and a bottle of pumped milk... It's an occasion to move his WU time earlier, maybe it will affect his BT too...

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Re: 11 weeks old - OT baby
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2016, 20:21:42 pm »
OK things are likely to go a bit off track if you have an unusual day so I would expect anything tomorrow and for a while after.
The good thing though is, yes, this can be a time to adjust his WU.
To shift BT I would suggest starting with WU time anyway, moving it earlier in increments is one way of shifting BT earlier rather than just hoping LO will go to sleep earlier but it never happens.
FWIF mine always did a 10-11hr night, he was not a 12hr a night sleeper so although he has been able to sleep independently since he was very young there was no way I could get longer nights.

The other thing you can do is use that 7ish nap as BT instead. If/when he wakes you treat as a night waking and stay in a dark room with minimal activity, helping him to go to sleep.  Quite tiring and hard work but after a few nights your day ought to be moved.