Eliminate the night feedings cold shoulder - 9 months - Your experiences

[Palmira78]

There are a number of factors that prevent my spirited 9 months old baby to sleep through the night... and I know that over the time everything will improve, however one of those factors is the night breast feedings. For that reason, I have decided to eliminate them totally. I have checked with 2 pediatricians and both have confirmed that biologically my son does not need them.
After trying unsuccessfully reducing the minutes of each feed, I have decided to do it cold shoulder. This was the way I did it with my eldest son when he was 18 months and it worked after 4 nights with lots of hugs and desperate crying involved. I did not and I will not leave my baby crying alone, but I will soothe him without nursing no matter how many hours it takes. I am confident that at the end he will be able to go back to sleep without nursing (like he does during his day naps).

Before I go ahead, I would like to learn about your experiences in order to benchmark some best practices. What did you do to soothe your LO's instead of nursing? How did you share the load with your DH? How many nights were needed for your baby to accept that no milk would be coming?

Your experiences and suggestions are very welcomed :-)

[FPT23]

Hi

Quite honestly, babies go through many growth spurts. I would always offer to nurse if settling isn't working out. If it seemed like it wasn't a hunger issue I attempted in other ways to soothe. However, I found that the NWs were not affiliated with hunger but other issues such as his daily routine. Once I was able to tweak and work it out, NWs stopped. We still have occasional NWs but I do not nurse and he normally resettles by holding him to relax him, rubbing his back, and once he's calm I put down and he's good to go. He is a great self soother and adapted well, early on. That is my personal experience every baby is different.

 Although, I would like to go ahead and offer the link we have here on the forum on Pantleys Gentle Removal Plan. It takes time and lots of patience but I find it is the most gentlest and with less tears involved

Gentle Removal Plan

It's a good reference, I find

Another method that would best work in your situation if the above reference wasn't to your preference or it didn't quite fit, is Pick Up/Put Down... It will also take some time and patience and very tiring at first, but it can work so long as you stay consistent. I personally don't have experience for PU/PD nor did I prefer the method. I like less tears and screaming haha but none the less, I am providing the link if you would like to read over it

Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!

Now, a few things to remember about NWs. For a breast fed baby, keep in mind those growth spurts. As I mentioned, I always offer to nurse IF he is unsettling any other way and that usually means he's hungry. It's not his normal to keep on. That's my baby, of course. But still, make sure he's getting enough milk in his day ...to avoid him making up for it at nights. Another thing, teething! It is ok to offer some relief before BT to help him through his night IF that's the case as well. Something else to consider In addition, you want to ask yourself, has he ever slept independently? Can he self settle? Are you in anyway a prop to help him sleep? For instance, rocking, nursing to sleep, holding... All those are prop and prevent a baby to learn how to self soothe and depend on mom for that. If not, sleep training is something to try and I would prb start with naps, with one of above methods OR...

Most importantly, take a look into his daytime routine. How does his routine look like? How much activity time is he getting? Naps? How long? How many? Etc.

There are a lot of things that contribute to NWs. You can possibly even avoid the pain of staying up all night trying to fix something that doesn't require such a hard time, kwim? I think it's worth trying to take at his daily routine and see if anything needs some tweaking. I tell you, its important to look at !! It has saved my NWs so much more the second time around!


Hope all this helps!!! This is just my very humble opinion and suggestions let me know how you feel about it! Maybe you can jot his easy routine for a few days and post? Or if it's pretty conistent, you can post your regular now. It would be nice for others to have a look and maybe spot something that can help!

Xo

[Palmira78]

Thanks a lot for the good suggestions and your detailed post. I read the Pantley book and all the links to PU/PD. The thing is that I want to stop breast feeding during the night. If it is okay I prefer to place in a different post my baby's easy routines and other issues.
I would like to learn from some other moms that decided to stop nursing during the night.
Is it just me the only one not happy to be nursing during the night?

[creations]

Hi there - you might get more responses from other BF mums if you post on the BF board. Just a thought.

[Palmira78]

Thanks a lot! You are right. I will try with the BF board... I was hoping to get feedback about the impact on the NW, but I understand that it will be more appropriate there.

[FPT23]

Yes it is a good idea but I made sure to list as much information for you with regards to NWs

Did you find any of this information useful? If not, or your looking for more, as Creations said- you might prefer the BF board!

If you do not wish to BF at night, have you tried Bottle feeding with expressed milk? Stopping breastfeeding at night is first ensuring that your baby doesn't need night feeds anymore. If you have become simply a prop (nursing) then a method of ST is best. Which is why I suggested those options.

And again, sometimes baby will sleep all the way through once some things are tweaked in babies daytime routine. I am a breast feeding mom myself and once I got a better hold of my sons daytime routine, and I know for sure he's an independent sleeper (something I asked you as well in the previous post) ...NWs reduced.


Xo

[Palmira78]

 Thanks a lot for the good advice. I am taking on your comments and please accept my apologies if I did not give too much of a response regarding your post.
The thing is that where I live, 2 different pediatricians have told me that night feeding could be the problem for the NW (and this was the case for DS1 when he was 18 months). I have been told off for still feed during the night my 9 months old... So I was a little anxious to do "things right".
In any case I do not want to make any massive changes until I see my baby a little bit more settled.
We recently returned to work and to the kindergarten after one whole month so my DS2 must adapt to the routine. He is teething as well, biting everything, his gums very red...
My DS2 spends from 8:00 Am to 15:30 pm in the kindergarten so I have limited chances to adapt his sleeping times and routines. In any case his EASY is as follows (and I keep it consistent during the weekend):
7:00 BF
7:30 WU
9:30-10:15 Nap
11:30 lunch - solids
1:00-3:00 Nap
3:30 BF
4:00 fruits
6:00 BF +solids
7:45 BF
8:00 BT
He is more or less an independent sleeper for the naps. We place him in the cot with the pacifier on and he fells asleep (we stay in the room near by).
During the night I try to resettle him before nursing. In the past I was more successful with the pacifier or water. Now he seems breast addicted.
My DS2 is nervous so it seems that only my presence makes him calm. When my DH goes he gets mad, so I carry the load of his NW.
I definitely think that it will be easier to wean my DS2 from 1 night feeding than from 3 or 4 (as it is nowadays). So your advice will be very welcomed.

[*Ali*]

Can he replug  the paci  himself?

Have you considered giving milk (expressed or formula) during the day when he's at nursery? I see he's currently going 7am til 3.30pm without any BFs. He might be struggling to make up the calories in the day with the last 3 feeds crammed into 4hr15 before bed.

I'd just ignore anyone telling you off about "still" feeding at night. The World Health Organisations recommends feeding as often as baby wants, day and night until 2yo. They wouldn't suggest that if it were harmful.

[Palmira78]

Good idea regarding to feed him some milk in addition to the solids during the time in the kindergarten. Today I will check with the teacher about it and the most convenient time for them to do so.  Thanks for that. You might be right, that he is not receiving enough calories during the morning. This is open minding for me.

Regarding the pacifier, my son is able to re-plug the pacifier himself.  In fact I have seen him during the night to take it and continue sleeping. This happened during vacation in the hotel room when we all slept in the same room. Sometimes he also falls asleep without it, when we go for a walk, for example. Once he is fully asleep he normally spits it out, so I am not very concerned about it. Although I wish I can eliminate the pacifier once our nights get better.

The thing is that most of the times, when he cries, he has the paci in his own hand, so he wants me to help him calm down. Occasionally just by talking to him and holding his hands still he goes back to sleep (I wish that was always the case). However most of the times, I have to nurse him. My baby is quite big in size and weight so perhaps your comment regarding additional food during the day may be spot on.... I will try and let you know :-)

[FPT23]

Great advice from Ali as usual! Hopefully adding extra calories in his day may help those NWs!

No need to apologize- we are all just regular moms trying to figure things out here too
Hopefully some of the advice given can help you sort some things out

Ok so, I want to ask, how many NWs does he normally have?

How is he in the evening hours? Does be seem fussy, or tired? What time does he wake normally in the mornings?

The reason I ask is because of the long leap from 3pm to his BT at 8pm. Something to consider. How many hours of rest is he getting in his day?

Also, maybe the new changes with school have a lot to do with him needing more of you. Babies go through some delegation anxiety around that time too.

Sorry I'm a bit late but hopefully we can help those NWs!

[Palmira78]

Thanks for your support FPT23!
For the last 2 weeks he is normally waking in average 4 times per night. For example, today: He went to sleep at 20:00, and woke up at 12:00, 2.30, 5:00, 6:45 (this one I already consider his breakfast). Yesterday he woke up at: 23:30, 0:45, 1:45, 2:45, 5:30, 6:45. The day before: 23:45, 0:45, 2:45, 5:00, 6:50 (this one is his breakfast). I have a Fitbit (activity tracker) so he tells me the timing. Sometimes I even forget the number of times.
By the way after his breakfast around 7:00 he goes back to sleep again until 7:30 (this gives me time to get ready for work). Should I make him stay awake from 7:00 onwards? During the weekends I really love those extra minutes....

I agree with you that from 3 to 8, it is way too long without sleeping. The problem is that in the kindergarten they have the official "nap" time from 1 to 3, when they keep low lights and no noises and encourage all children to sleep. Yesterday, for instance my son only napped from 13:00-14:00 therefore I allowed him a 30 minute cat nap at 18:00, since otherwise it was impossible for him to stay awake until 20:00. I do not see how can I change his naps timing when I am not with him. I wonder why this was not a problem with his older brother at his age... Perhaps when he goes for just 1 nap per day everything will be fine?

During the evenings he is normally happy and very excited looking at his older brother play. Around 19:15 he starts getting cranky so I give him a bath and start with the BT routine. I have to say that most times I place him awake in his bed, but I have to re-settle a few times 20 minutes later.

Regarding hours of sleep per day, he sleeps: 2 hours 30 minutes, split in 2 naps and the occasional cat nap.
During the night 11hours and 30 minutes

Your ideas and suggestions will be very welcomed :-)

[*Ali*]

What about resettling him without a feed if it has been less than a certain number of hours since the last feed. I definitely wouldn't be feeding again an hour later. I used to have most luck resettling earlier in the night when she was presumably more tired. I think although he may need some BFs at night still 4 is quite excessive.

[Palmira78]

I agree with you Ali, that I should try to avoid resettling without a feed if it has been less than for example 2 hours since the previous one. The thing is that during the night I go mindless and I not always realize what time is it; in fact, I only aim to return as quickly as possible to bed, nevertheless I have taken your comment on and last night I did look at the time.
By the other hand, my DS is not aware of the timing so from his point of view it could be seen as erratic behavior from my side if sometimes I feed him and other times y just stroke him.... this was one of the reasons I started thinking about stopping the feeds cold turkey.

By the way, last night my DS only woke up twice: at 11:30 and at 2:30 so I feel happy and rested :-)

[*Ali*]

No he won't know the time but he will know if he is hungry or not.

[FPT23]

Hello

How have the last couple of days been? Happy to hear about the 2 wakes only! Very happy to hear you got some much needed rest.

I do remember your last post when we discussed all the changes that were happening and the trip as well. Now he has started going to that kindergarten, so it's possible he just needs quite sometime to catch up and adjust. There isn't much you can do if that is the routine they have him in at school but have you tried an earlier bedtime?

Did you also try teething meds just in case?

I agree with Ali. 4 is excessive for this age-- but I would try to resettle as well the best you can before offering a feed, as Ali suggested

By any chance, the night he only woke twice, did you jot down his routine? Or do you remember it? ...that way we can see what was done that day (feedings/routine/A times) to have allowed him to wake less, kwim?

Xo