FTM and would like some sleep

[ZanesOTmom]

Oh god. Whilst it's exciting cos LO is getting older, I'm scared of NWs possibly continuing due to OT. Very scared. We are at 2.20ish AT right now after the am WU. I'll try to extend it. Oh god please help me. Really hoping for a positive outcome very soon. 

[ZanesOTmom]

I'm so tired I can't see straight. He's had so many night wakings and then naps are so short, I'm lucky to squeeze in a shower and brush my teeth daily. Would love to throw the towel this time... it's been close to two months we've been sleep traininga nd it feels like I'm still failing at this. Sorry. I'm so lacking sleep I feel dizzy. 

Yes, looks like it's time for 3-2 transition. Absolutely ring a bell, all of them. I just don't know how to extend AT bit at a time if our A time varies. AM AT we're: 2.08, 1.53 and today 2.39. He used to sleep within 5mins and now, it's a guessing game. I wait for sleep cues and try to extend it from there but it just won't stay the same. Could be because his wake time varies and sometimes he's able to go back for a quick nap til WU but sometimes not, so the level of morning tiredness differs Day to day. Today, his AT were significantly higher than the previous days, although no change in nap lengths, only becoming harder to put him to sleep. But this resulted into the day getting long. We're already at 13-13.5hr days roughly (6:30-7 WU and 8pm shut eye). I followed your advice, Creations, and capped CN (seems so mean of me but I'll keep at it and paying to see the light at the end of the tunnel soon) to 18mins to preserve BT of 8pm-ish. Do I keep doing this until morning A time is close to or at 3h? I'll do my best to stick around the same AT.

I think LO is low sleep needs. His sleep range is 11.5-14hrs. Rarely has it been more than 14hrs in 24hrs in the past 2 months. If he is LSN, does that change anything? Would it make sense that he chronically has 30min naps? It feels like this will never change and that it's his norm... 

Does anyone here do crib only during the day and cosleep at night? It'll be easier to deal with the NW if he's beside me, on a cot. If I haven't invested so much energy and time and effort and resources sleep training him the past 2 months, I would've said to heck with it today. Just close to the end of my rope... I'm sorry.

[creations]

Sorry to hear you are so run down by this. Nap transition phases can be very frustrating and very tiring.
A couple of options I can think of:
1. To increase A times gradually, but firmly, write down what your A time goal is and stick with it, ignoring sleepy cues, and continue the capped CN until A times reach close enough to 3hrs to be able to drop the CN
OR
2. Go directly now to a 2 nap day with set nap times.  This is often hard for a few days, LO can become OT in the shorter term, but the bonus is that usually LO also gets into the new routine much faster so instead of A time increases dragging out for weeks you both have a bit of a rougher time but for a shorter time frame.  This second option is often helpful for people who are at the end of their tether which is why I mention it.  I might otherwise have suggested plodding on for another 2 weeks to get closer to 6 months but this route has worked very well with LOs of 5.5 months too. The other benefit for you is that there is not guessing of sleep times it's just set.  Tracy used this method for putting LOs onto a routine - it can seem quite dramatic but it gets results.

Based on the times you have given for WU the day would look like this:
WU 6.30
A 3hr
S 9.30 - 11.00 (you can let him sleep up to 11.30 if he wants to)
A 3hr
S 2.00 - 3.30 (or 2.30 to 4.00 if first nap was 2hrs) (this nap might be 2.00 - 4.00 for a 2hr nap)
A 3hrs
BT 6.30pm if both naps were 1.5hrs.  7pm if one nap was 2hrs

LOs seem to have a natural nap length of either 1.5hrs (2 sleep cycles of 45 mins) or 2hrs (3 cycles of 40 min) so the routine depends a little on that although actually you can fully set this routine if you find that easier.

If he is LSN, does that change anything?

LSN can mean shorter nights and can mean ability to do very long A times (so don't worry so much about increasing). Generally if a LO can't do 12hr night but more like 10.5 or 11hrs we look at the day routine to allow for that and just don't expect 12hrs.
LOs can sometimes appear LSN and end up pretty average or even high sleep than others...just to confuse things.  As example mine did huge A times in the morning but very short at the end of the day, always 10.5/11hr night never longer, so appeared LSN. However he held on to his nap for longer than many LSN toddlers and at 4yo, 5yo and now at 6yo is sleeping longer nights than most of his age peers.

I'll let you have a think about those options.

[ZanesOTmom]

Thanks so much for all the support.

Would it be possible that some LOs have shorter sleep cycles? Even with extended AT DS opens his eyes after 30mins. With or without WTS. If I am able to extend it (which is rare), he would wake after 1hr6-10mins. Or, after 30mins, he wakes then sleep for 6-9mins then wake up again. Then sleep for another 30mins. Not sure if this is normal. I can't remember the last time he slept for 1.5hrs or more, without help. Do some LOs never learn to connect sleep cycles?

I was able to extend am AT to 2.50 today so that's great. What can i expect to happen at bedtime  if LO is OT?

Oh and when we go for walks, he would catnap for 15mins or less. Would this disrupt his sleep during actual nap times? Should I be extending AT even more when this happens? Should I stop him from catnapping at all cost? Thanks again.

[creations]

Would it be possible that some LOs have shorter sleep cycles?

It is possible yes in my opinion.  I've seen threads in the past where we've come to the conclusion LO has a 30 min cycle - mostly it seems to be when OT is assumed but LO is UT.  Often 30 mins is expected to be an OT nap but obviously with a 30 min cycle (or even for some with longer cycles would you believe) it can be UT.

What can i expect to happen at bedtime  if LO is OT?

Depends how much OT.  in some cases it can be that Lo actually goes down easier and faster, in others LO screams blue murder and won't go down, in some LO goes to sleep relatively ok (or not) and then continues to wake many times before midnight.
A very early waking the following morning can also be due to OT.
I will say though that often members of the community fear OT but fail to see that UT can bring just as many (if not more) problems.  It is a good idea to try to keep both in mind and not assume a restless or crying baby is automatically OT.

he would catnap for 15mins or less. Would this disrupt his sleep during actual nap times?

I'm afraid so, yes, it doesn't bother some LOs but some will then act like they had a full nap and refuse to go down for the right nap time and end up very OT as a result.

If the options above don't sound like your thing or you don't feel ready for those options, you could accept lots of CNs for now and deal with things at a later date. Some people prefer to do that.  We are still here whenever you decide it's time.

[ZanesOTmom]

I've decided to go with the 3-2 transition and do it slowly. DH took over the very early morning NW over the weekend and I feel refreshed. We've had success extending AT, especially morning. It just gets messed up by not being able to extend naps (I try to keep him in bed for at least an hour, most times able to get 2x30min naps.

I've been APOPing his EWs to extend his sleep to 6:45-7am and so I can get some rest too. This helps with keeping the AT more consistent on a daily basis. His morning is now 2.45-2.50, then 2.35-2.45 on midday and pm AT. CN is being capped and he ends up sleeping quickly after ~1.5 AT. We get into trouble when he naps in between supposed sleep time like now. He woke at 11am and we went for a walk at 1230h cos he was getting bored. He ended up falling asleep at 1252-1312h. It's now 1450h and he is nowhere close to sleepy. I just fed him then we'll play for a bit. We might have to do early BT for the first time tonight.

I'm learning a lot. Thanks so much.

[creations]

You are welcome