Hello, new and needing help

[birdie3775]

Hello everyone!

I have a little girl who is 4 1/2 months old and sleeps terribly. She wakes up every 40 min during the night and sometimes even every 20 min. This has left both my hubby and I completely exhausted. I have no idea how to change her sleep habbits and have read many posts, so far nothing has worked. Her schedule during the day is generally the same... waking up at 8am up for an hour sleeps 2hours up for 2 hours sleeps a hour then a cat nap before bed which is around 8pm for her. I try to only feed her after her wakings. She often wakes up CRYING and I have no idea why. She's not hot, not cold, and just ate 20 min prior. We have started her on oatmeal but no prevail. I tried letting her CIO, but she just screamed for 20min never letting up. I am desperate and willing to try anything. Please let me know any suggestions you have! Thank you!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Hi birdie, I'm so sorry that things are so rough right now!! Hang in there!

I would definitely urge you to stop the oatmeal, unless DD's doc gave you the go ahead to start solids. At 4.5 it could very well be too soon for her, so she's not digesting it well and that can cause cramping, gas, and general upset. Plus, it's really a myth that solids will help a lo sleep better. There's not much in terms of calories, so it doesn't sustain them. It can actually make sleeping worse.

Also, it sounds to me like she is in a cycle of overtiredness. Can you post your entire daily routine, so I can get a better idea?

[birdie3775]

Colin's Mom,

I hadn't planned on starting her on solids til 6 months, but the doc said to give it a try. She actually wanted me to give her solids 3 times a day already... but I thought that was a bit much.

Her schedule is:

8:00 am wake up
8:30 am feed
9:45 am nap
10:30 am wake
11:00 am feed -- and play time
12:00 pm nap
2:00 pm wake
2:30 pm feed -- and play time
4:30 pm nap
5:30 wake and feed
6:30 pm cat nap
7:00 pm wake and play time
7:50 pm dinner (which is now oatmeal for her)
8:00 pm night time sleep

[Colin Macs Mom]

I do think that your routine needs a bit of tweaking to prevent overtiredness. I would go for something like this -

8:00 wake
8:30 feed and oatmeal
9:30 nap
11/11:30 wake
12:00 feed
1:00 nap
3:00 wake
3:30 feed
5:00 nap
6:00 wake
7:00 feed
8:00 bedtime

You should definitely feed the oatmeal either and breakfast or lunch. Doing it for dinner could be a big part of the problem if it's causing gas or upset. If you do it earlier in the day it will give her time to get it out of her system.

[ambersmum]

wow, you're having a tough time! hugs to you!

just a thought, are you breasfeeding? If you are and you are so tired it is possible you've not got enough milk to fill her up at night. I'm not saying stop bf but possibly talk to healthcare prof about this possibility.

I would advise solids for breakfast or lunch not tea. Also, try 'tanking up' in the evening. I used to feed dd at 3pm, 5pm,6pm and 7pm to get as much milk as possible in before a 7:15 bedtime.

What do you do when she wakes in the night?
 HTH
hope to hear from you soon
juliet

[birdie3775]

Thank you so much for the suggestion Colin! I do think she is overtired. I've been taking extra notice to her naps today and yesterday and I think if she wakes crying she's still tired. Like today she got a good 2 1/2 hour nap and woke up happy.

Ambersmum - I do bf'd, but she is mainly getting expressed milk (she is teething and bites down and/or pulls away... it really hurts). So I get to see how much she is eating. However, she tends to want a little ALL day. So I'm also trying to get her eating a full bottle instead of a little bit here and there. When she wakes in the night I feed her usually. Last night she got up at 11pm 2 am 3am 3:30 4 4:30 5 ... etc. So she's actually starting to sleep better from 8 til 2, but the early morning hours are terrible.

Any suggestions why this is? Maybe if I can figure out the early morning problem I can get her to sleep better all around. I had no idea it was better to give her oatmeal earlier in the day! I gave her oatmeal for lunch today... I'll skip dinner. Thank you! I will also try to cluster feed her before bed. After you mentioned that it dawned on me that when she was first born she used to cluster feed and slept better.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Yeah, if she wakes crying that's definitely a sign that she's still tired. The teething might also be playing a role too so you might need some patience for that, but it does sounds like the primary thing is overtiredness. Let me know how the clusterfeeding goes!

[ambersmum]

I was thinking about your situation and 2 things occured to me, one was that if you get the daytime naps sorted that may sort out overtiredness and therefore help with nighttime sleep. I used to do sh/pat to get dd to go back to sleep if she woke too early from her naps and was still sleepy. It was hard work, but worth it in the end!

The other thought was, do you feed her back to sleep when she wakes in the early hours? If you feed her a 3 and she wakes at 3:30 would something else get her off to sleep again if she's not really hungry?

Glad she slept well in the early evening, hope things improve soon.

[birdie3775]

We tried to cluster feed her yesterday evening and she didn't want to. I am going to try again tonight though.

Ambersmum - During the day when she wakes I give her a bottle to help her back to sleep (I too used to hop in bed and nurse her back to sleep). When she wakes in the early morning I also feed her to sleep... is that a bad thing? I tried the sh/pat, but it seems that it always wakes her up more.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Definitely do NOT feed her to sleep. She will associate food with sleep, and you don't want to deal with that, believe me. She won't learn to sleep independently if she is dependent on a prop like food to get to sleep.

[birdie3775]

Colins,

Well see, she's weird. When I first put her down at night she falls asleep fine on her own. However, during the days she has a really hard time going to sleep on her own. In fact, only about 1 nap a day she goes to sleep on her own. Though I feed her to sleep at night I always wake her to burp her so she's put down and falls a sleep on her own. Just during the day is tough for her. I tried letting her cry it out, but most the time it doesn't work.

I didn't give her oatmeal at dinner yesterday and I think she did better! She was in bed at 9 (we had dinner with family and got hom late  ) woke up at 12am 3 am 5 am and 6 am... she was up until 7, but I just let her stay in her crib and she fell asleep completely by herself by 6:45 then slept til 8. I will definitely keep giving oatmeal for breakfast or lunch rather than dinner. I'm so glad you ladies mentioned that to me! I hope she'll also cluster feed too. I feel like we are making process!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Well see, she's weird.

LOL, aren't they all?!?!   

When I first put her down at night she falls asleep fine on her own. However, during the days she has a really hard time going to sleep on her own. In fact, only about 1 nap a day she goes to sleep on her own. Though I feed her to sleep at night I always wake her to burp her so she's put down and falls a sleep on her own. Just during the day is tough for her. I tried letting her cry it out, but most the time it doesn't work.

My DS was the same way. He would sleep in his crib in his own room just fine at night, but during the day he would have nothing to do with it and would NOT sleep unless he was being held - meaning he was not going to nap independently if his life depended on it. I never did figure that out. Being spirited, he also really hates change and needs quite a long time to get used to anything new.    So what we did was over the course of about 2.5 months (ridiculous amount of time I know) was teach him to sleep on the couch in the living room (one of us was right there of course) and then moved him to his crib for naps. It was the strangest thing, one day I was trying to get him to nap on the couch and he was just screaming his head off, really angry. I was confused and frustrated, and getting mad at him so I put him in his crib for a moment so I could calm myself, and when I came back in he was asleep! And he's slept there ever since. I guess he was trying to tell me that's where he wanted to be.    Perhaps it would help you to try something similar for the naps? It sounds like she is capable of independent sleep, but has a hard time with naps like my DS did.

I must really encourage you though to leave the crying it out by the wayside. With BW we strongly believe that CIO breaks the trust between a lo and the parent. When they cry they need you! Depending on how often and how recently you did that, you might be experiencing a loss of trust with your lo, and if so that will need to be regained before the independent sleep improves. She needs to know that you will be there when she needs you.

I didn't give her oatmeal at dinner yesterday and I think she did better! She was in bed at 9 (we had dinner with family and got hom late  ) woke up at 12am 3 am 5 am and 6 am... she was up until 7, but I just let her stay in her crib and she fell asleep completely by herself by 6:45 then slept til 8. I will definitely keep giving oatmeal for breakfast or lunch rather than dinner. I'm so glad you ladies mentioned that to me! I hope she'll also cluster feed too. I feel like we are making process!

Glad to hear that!! Sounds like perhaps the oatmeal was causing some sort of upset after all.

[ambersmum]

Gald you feel there's some progress! You will make progress if you keep going with BW techniques. It is good that although she falls asleep on bedtime bottle you put her down awake. Going into cot awake is very important for learning independent sleep.

CIO is not a good method (although I've done it once in utter despair, so I'm not judging you at all). even if you are just in the room, with your hand on her tummy/back or wherever she knows you are there and mummy is helping her to sleep. The hardest part is creeping out of the room when she does get off to sleep. My advice on that is to wait until she is REALLY asleep, even if it means staying an extra 5 mins. If sh/pat is too stimulating ( with our dd she got to an age where is was too much, can't remember when that was) try modifying it with just sitting by the bed, with you hand on her instead of patting and try a quieter 'sh' or non at all.

Be encouraged, lots of us have been there and come out the other side with fantastic independent sleepers!

[ambersmum]

just thought, about daytime naps is noise or light a problem? We use black outs at the window and when dd went thruogh a phase of being noise sensitive we used some sort of white noise to help.

[birdie3775]

Last night was a set back she woke up every hour on the dot again. No idea why. I don't like CIO, but unfortuantely with my DD she will NOT sleep in our bed, arms, living room, etc. She has to have her crib. I did sit there with her quite a few times and found that only prolongs her crying. If I leave the room she's asleep with in 2 min. DH and I tried everything else possible and this child stayed up 16 hours a couple of times when she was less than 2 months old.

Ambersmum - I started thinking that maybe light was a problem. However, the last two mornings she's fallen asleep in her crib even with the sun up. As for noise, it doesn't seem to make a difference. I tried complete silence and white noise. Either way her sleep is the same.

I tried to cluster feed her again last night and she wants nothing to do with it! I swear she eats a lot less in the evenings. Today I'm taking notice to how many ounces she's getting during the day. She eats the most in the mornings.