Is there anything I can do to improve his mood?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Oh no, lots of infection go away vibes xx. My DD3 is getting into a similar "me do" phase and totally cannot do most of what she thinks she can. We are in tantrum mode all the time it seems over every little thing! Will be going crazy right along with you...

[labrodyk]

It's SO infuriatingly frustrating isn't it?! More so the "mummy go away! Harry cook/clean/stack dishwasher/make sandwich" nonsense. We have stools all over the house that allow him to do everything he wants to do, I'm tripping over them all! What child (mummy!) doesn't want to have their meal made for them? He's just turned 2 but can (with direction) make a stir fry!!!

[Truly Blessed]

Just want to add that in this house we could do with some "Me do" instead of all the "Mammy do!" I think it's marvellous  lol.x.

[labrodyk]

Oh Vicki, I'll trade you some mummy do for 'toddler do' any day!!!

I wondered what you ladies thought of my idea for this bedtime wee debacle I'm having at nap / bed time. It seems that if I go in and let him try he settles once he's back in bed quickly and quietly, otherwise he just screams and screams and I hate him going to sleep like that. Current routine is;

7ish - bath & pj's
7.30 - milk, quiet play & books in lounge room
7.50 - brush teeth, toilet & set gro clock
8ish - into bed.

I wondered whether I should casually 'trick' him into doing his toilet trip once he's in bed - eg. Going from teeth straight to bed then once he's in he ALWAYS grips my hand and says 'wee mummy'. Is it wrong/bad if I indulge him in this trip and let him go on the proviso he gets back in quickly and quietly falls asleep? It certainly not ideal but I can not stand the screaming and crying
Are there any other tips for dealing with this?

Many thanks
Laura x

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Laura,

As you know that the "Wee Mummy" thing is just a diversion for you leaving him, how about you sit with him at a good time and write a list of all the things we need to do before bed. Then make it like a game at bed time, keeping it light and maybe putting a star against everything on the list as you go along, with lots of praise, this will distract him from  his anxiety and give him a sense of achievement, as he is so independent. Then try some positive re-enforcement using whatever he covets as a a reward, stickers, coins etc. You could get him to decorate a special jar, and each time he goes to sleep like a big boy, in the morning he gets his coin or whatever in his jar, with lots of praise  . We're doing this again with Sam at the moment. Then maybe try saying, "Mammy is going next door to do x,y,z then I will be back to check on you. DH and I did this with Sam, it's really walk in walk out but with extra talking, and Sam would be much calmer, and often he would drop off after I had checked on him one time, ultimately we wouldn't need to do it anymore.

What do you think 

x.

[labrodyk]

Thanks Vicki! I'll try that - to be honest, it's driving me crazy and I'm dreading nap and bedtime. It used to be so easy.

We're having NW'w at 3.30 and awake for the day at 5.50 the last few days. In the morning he just keeps calling "mummy, come here now" over and over. Today he then started up with "wee mummy" soy husband took him and he did go (nappy pants were dry) but he won't go back to sleep, just talks to himself and then struggles to make it to bedtime. He has started to sleep a little longer at nap until 3.45. As I said, I hate to wake him so is 8pm bedtime too early? my husband thinks 8pm is late enough though

[Truly Blessed]

It's a really long day Hun, 14 hours plus, I wouldn't go any later.x.

[labrodyk]

I completely agree Vicki, it's such a long day!
I can't wait until he doesn't nap anymore

He refused to nap today and was very grumpy and uoset from 12.30. We decided to go for a drive and he was drifting off in the car around 2pm watching a movie, but then the iPad battery went dead and he screamed and cried for an hour at the top of his lungs for it back. Was a nightmare. He finally fell asleep at 3 for 40mins but was a crying, tantum mess all afternoon. Hubby put him down at 7.20 and he was quiet but I went to make a phone call and hubby came to get me at 8 saying he was crying and wanted to do a wee! I took him once and he went back to bed.

I don't understand why he keeps waking through the night, wakes so early and fights me for nap and bedtime. I really am at the end of my rope - I hate sleep time

[labrodyk]

9.5 hours night sleep seems low. By the time he falls asleep and waking at or before 6, no wonder he can't make it to nap time and is grumpy and upset. Is there much I can do about this?

[Truly Blessed]

It is low Hun, far too low, I'm pretty sure this is the start of the 1-0 transition, did you read the link I posted 

x.

[labrodyk]

i'm SO not ready for this!! Yes I did read the link but couldn't really pigeon hole ourselves into any of the options other than a long nap/short night.

Today he did a proper sleep but took me a while to get him into bed just after 2pm. Was asleep by 2.10 and got up at 3.40. Tonight was another bedtime battle and he got extremely upset (tears and all) that he couldn't do a wee when it was toilet time but somehow managed to squeeze out a drop on his 'one and only second trip after he was tucked in'  I used your phrase of "I'm just going to stack the dishwasher, I'll come back to check on you shortly" and I left his room door open which he seemed to like but there were a few "mummy" calls and is having a nice chat 15mins later so hopefully he drops off soon.

To be honest, he is SO unhappy when woken from a nap and today really wasn't that bad (granted he had a lot of screen time because we were car hunting) but it's just I always worry about his sleep requirements. To say he's low sleep needs is an understatement. Just not sure what our best approach is!!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

If he is really low sleep needs then I imagine the nap is probably on its way out. Unless he is the type of kid who could do well on a long nap/short night kind of routine (and if you are okay with that). DD3 is 15 months and at best we get an 11 hour night with a 45-60 min nap. By age 2 I am sure she will not be napping at all! Which tbh is not really a problem because with two older kids I won't have to juggle stuff around naptime anymore. Some kids just don't like being woken, it doesn't necessarily mean they need the longer nap - my DD1 was like that. Well still is in the morning!

[jessmum46]

DD hated being woken from her nap when we were nap-dropping but it had to be done otherwise we had bedtime trouble, night waking, EWs and general bad mood from nights being disturbed or too short.  I used to have a snack ready as soon as I woke her and we'd go straight to cuddle on the sofa whilst watching Peppa pig or something completely inane.  After 20-30 mins she would usually perk up. 

I know it can be horrid to wake LOs but some children wouldn't ever drop the nap left to their own devices, whereas others will refuse it.  Think of it like when a newborn has day-night reversal - you wouldn't just let them sleep as much as they wanted in the day without expecting silliness at night time.  Similarly with the 1-0 you need to help them re-adjust when they are doing their sleeping and that means short-term pain (cutting the daytime sleep with inevitable bad mood) for longer-term gain of better longer more restful nights.

[Buttonbobs]

This is a really great explanation Katherine - I've not thought of it like that before.

Just to add to the thoughts - my DD didn't cope well with being woken from the nap - although we tried as Katherine suggests for over a week. In the end we just shifted nap later and later as DD naturally did. Eventually BT got late enough (9.30pm!) that it started affecting DD with OT etc so at that point we just tried to keep her going in the day and went for NNDs. She was still napping every few days for a while, but she still dropped them quite quickly really.

If you really feel waking from naps isn't an option - this is a possibility, if you and he can cope with the later nights.

[labrodyk]

You ladies are so helpful!

I'll have a think about how best to approach it and what is best for Harry. He's not as terrible on short night, long nap but I think any later BT is going to be a stretch and OT will most definitely hit.

Yesterday, EAS was

WU: 6.00
Nap: 2.00 (asleep 2.10) - 3.40 he got out of bed (gro clock is set to 3.30)
BT: 8.20 (asleep by 9, May have been slightly earlier)
WU: 6.25 chatting until 7 for gro clock

So a slightly later WU with a later bedtime...

If I was to cap the nap, what times should I stick to? It's difficult to know the precise moment he falls asleep so might not get the timing right to wake him. Or is it better to just say 2-3 for example and not worry about the 'actual' sleep?

Thanks so much
Laura x