Jan/Feb 05 chat - Thread #3

[Deb_in_oz]

Happy Birthday Maya!  fill us all in on the details!

[Deb_in_oz]

did not want to put my story with the positive Happy birthday message.

things here are S-HIT with capital letters (hope i don't offend you lovely ladies). i have been close t a breakdown the past 4 days because olivia has gone crazy since Tuesday morning when she woke at 6:30. I've asked for some help in the moderator board and hope that someone can offer insight, but just wanted to say hi while i have 5 min of peace and quiet.
basically liv is suffering insanely from separation anxiety,teething (both bottom teeth), refusing anythign from a spoon, eating very little solids but gorging on formula to make up for it (anything from 9-11oz per feed), goes down early for 1st nap and sleeps 1-1hr45 but then i can't figure out 2nd nap, then she finally sleeps late in the afternoon and then even with the late wake up she is overtired (?) by bedtime and the last 3 nigts we have not been able to get her to sleep (first 2 nights took an hour or so and we finally patted her off by 8:10pm  :shock: and the result was an ever earlier wakup, but last night from 8:50-9:45 Liv was hysterical - was loud enough to wake and upset alex, Liv almost vomited and was choking for air, sweating profusely form the effort, barely taking a breath. finally got her to sleep at 10pm  (and that was after i climbed into the cot and yelled over her to calm down and that mommy was not leaving her etc - she fell asleep holding on to both my feet :shock:  and woke after 5 min to check i was still there) alex was so upset - it was so loud jeff had taken her into our room to try to put her back to sleep in our bed  :roll:  which failed so after olivia was asleep and i stayed 20 min to make sure, then i leapt out of the cot  :shock: alex did not get to sleep until 10:30- would  not go back into her cot, etc This whole thing is taking all my energy and alex is getting upset at the lack of attention...

just needed to unload that for now! i am not sleeping well either and Dh and i are in separate bedrooms (have been for almost 2 weeks due to me being sick and then him being sick - too much coughing and tossing and turning etc)

[Daniel's mummy]

Happy birthday Maya.  One today.  Yippee!

[klt]

Happy Birthday to Maya    - what a year eh?

Kate

[klt]

Deb - I'm so sorry to hear about your rough time.  I can't imagine how hard it is with two los upset at night time actually so I won't even presume to offer any advice!  What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right....?

~HUGS~

Kate

[MelissaS]

HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAYA !!!       how exciting!

Where do I start - firstly FYI I have been on zoloft for PND/anxiety - you may have seen post in PND chat. It has been working fantastically and I have raved on about it for a while - but here is the big BUT.....I have been on it for over 2 months now and it was great - I felt calm, cruisy just generally enjoyed life. Nothing got to me.

Now I have started feeling really irritated/anxious again - (not with bub but usally with DH). I am not sure if it is the medication wearing off? I have read that some people become used to it and it does not work any more.  Or it could be lack of sleep. - Has anyone similar issues with Zoloft?

Tarri Yes for the last month I have been having bad nights (thank you for your concern - I have always had on and off problems with the sleeping thing. For a while DS slept through (prob about 2 months) in his 11 months of life. Here is my approx DTroutine you may be able to help.

5.30am WAKE - BREAST BACK TO SLEEP
7am WAKE
7.30-9.30 SOLIDS/ACTIVITY
9.30-11 SLEEP (may call out for bout 5 mins max then fall asleep)
11-2.30 SOLIDS/ACTIVITY
2.30-3.30 SLEEP (usually BF before sleep but not to sleep)
3.30-6.30 SOLIDS/PLAY ACTIVITY/BATH/SOLIDS/BOOK - breastfeed then bed. 95% goes to bed easily.
***I used to DF but have not for long time***
The fun then starts - for last month he is almost guaranteed to wake up at 9.30-10pm - I was picking him up some times BF and kept awake generally 30 minutes then put him back - he yells about 5 minutes then sleeps.

We have tried DH going in for a week but DS gets hysterical up to 30 minutes for me until I finally go in.

After he finally goes to sleep at around 10pm - he usally then wakes at 2am or 4-5am.

If he wakes at 2 - I generally leave him and he falls back to sleep after about 5 minutes but if not I get him up and cuddle then put back.

If he wakes at 4-5am - I BF him and he usually sleeps to 7am.

SORRY EVERYONE FOR WAFFLING ON....I FEEL A LITTLE BETTER GETTING THIS ALL OFF MY CHEST.

Jaime I do get along really well with DH family but I think I just feel the need to impress/please them with my 'great' mothering skills..... :shock:  They love us all so much and are really happy relaxed people - I dont like to let them see DS crying to much as I hate to admit - I feel a little like failing.......Not heaps but a little.

Branwen After looking at what I have typed with my routine - you are right!!! I am going to go cold turkey with BFding at night after the 6.30pm feed - once the inlaws have left. I will go in and try saying time for bed and kiss - hopefully it will take effect after 2 or 3 days.

Debra I really really really sympathise for you !!!!!! Different issue but same result with the sleep deprivation - Huge Huge HUGS!!!!


Anyway better leave some room for everyone else  :wink:

I feel better already just typing this all down
Melissa

[julieb]

Happy first brithday Maya!!   

Deb, big hugs to you!  I am praying for you and your family.

[thitz]

Melissa, I agree with Branwen too about not feeding till official wake up time.  Other than that your routine looks really good to me.  Also, does he have a lovie?

Debra,  so sorry about your horrible days lately.  I can't imagine how hard it must be with two lo's and you and dh getting sick. :shock:   My best suggestion is to give Advil right away if she won't go down at nap or night (I think the teething pains affect them more when they are tired).   Also, does Olivia have something to cuddle in the crib?  Maybe when you comfort her you can stuff something into her hand to hold and it might help with the seperation anxiety eventually.  Hope it gets better for you soon!  I'm sending you a BIG hug

Debra/Jamie, I'm starting to bath Emily once a day without any soap in warm to cool water to rehydrate.  Kayna (from the food allergy board) does it with her lo and she said it works well.  I think my problem was I wasn't letting her soak long enough, apparently it needs to be for 15-20mins.  I timed it last time and when I got her out her feet were all wrinkly which I haven't seen before so I know I've definately not had her in long enough before.

JulieB, How long do you let Asher sleep in the morning?  I think I have to shorten the morning nap (which I hate to do) cause whenever she has a 2 hour morning nap she has a 45mins afternoon nap and then can't stay up till bedtime, which leads to an early waking usually.


Us, I think we're onto another teething bout.  My strategy is to not mess about too much with pt/sh or pu/pd, I just give her the Advil.  Usually ends up with about 3 advil doses total over 3 days and then she's good again for a couple weeks.

[HeatherC]

Happy Birthday Maya!!  How exciting.


Deb, I am so so so sorry.  I can't imagine how hard this is for you.  You must have strong patience b/c you are handling it much better than i would be able to.  I'm sorry that I can't offer any advice, but I send you lots of hugs and prayers.

Tarri, Kelsey has a soft babydoll that she has taken to extemely well for sleep.  I've gone in to find her rubbing the baby's hand or foot while sleeping.  She often sleeps right on top of it.  It has no removable parts or pieces, it's totally cloth.

[diyasmom]

We are getting ready to leave to new hampshire for DH's family reunion. I wanted to just pop in and say hello to everyone!
Deb: If it is of any consolation, Diya was exactly the same last month. It almost lasted for a month I think. It was so bad that I used to cry often. She would not eat her solids and because of that, would wake up in the MOTN and I used to feed her. I didn't want her to cry much because she was anxious about leaving all of us. What helped us was(maybe she got over it by then) let her in a room for few mins alone and then run to her. Try increasing the time you leave her slowly.
Julieb: Hope Asher is feeling better now. Let us know
Melissa: Try feeding your DS more during the day. Does he wake up at the same time very night. If so, he is used to you feeding him. Try everything but not feeding him. Later try not going in much so that he will know that he has to sleep at that time.
Sorry if I didn't make any sense. I am in a hurry to pack while Diya is sleeping. Will catch up with you ladies after I get back on tuesday!
Vidya
Diya(1/25/05)

[julieb]

Asher's fever has gone down to almost nothing.  The diarrhea and snot continues, though I'm keeping the diarrhea well at bay with the BRAT diet.  He's getting mighty tired of the lack of variety though, even as much as he likes bananas.  Every time I give him anything else though, I find it whole in his diaper 6 hours later.  :lol:  He's not absorbing much of it and I don't want him to fill up on stuff his body is discarding.  :roll:

He's been in good spirits though, although we had a terrible time getting him to bed last night.  It was DH's turn and he kept crying seconds after DH would leave the room.  He was going in and out and didn't know what to do.  Asher did this Tuesday night when it was DH's turn as well, but not during my turns.  I tried to help settle him and Asher wouldn't let me leave either.  All the while he was getting himself worked up, hot & sweaty with tons of snot.  I had managed not to medicate him all day and he did great, now he was completely plugged up and couldn't suck his thumb. :?   I ended up just getting him up so he could calm down, cool off and we could figure out what to do.  Gave him meds and DH finally got him back to bed (made DH do it since I'm going out with my girlfriends tonight and don't want to be called back home in a panic!).

So come to find out after all of this, DH has been picking Asher up when he cries and goes back in!  This led to a fight and built up of resentment on my part.  I told him he's not supposed to pick up and that's probably creating this bad habit.  DH said I told him to PU/PD, so why not PU!  I said you don't physically PU anymore since he's been standing FOR MONTHS and he claimed I never told him.  :evil:   I know I did and I know DH just forgot like he does a lot.  He got frustrated because I don't tell him what to do or when I switch things around, etc, etc.  This brought up my underlying frustration of him never reading the BW book even though I've begged and pleaded all year.  I have often felt so alone in deciding how to raise Asher, and felt like DH's mother as well.  It ended up with him promising, yet again, to read the BW book.  But I told him he might as well not bother at this age and just move on to the toddler book, which I'm reading next.  :?  :roll:   I've read an article about men's lack of desire to read parenting books, but I still just don't get it.  It annoys me to no end.  This is his SON.  You'd think he'd want to learn about his own SON.

Ugh, thanks for letting me rant.

Melissa, I also think you're perpetuating the habit by nursing or picking him up at this age.  Asher often has night terrors, but he's rarely awake even though he's sitting up.  I find if I can just get his luvie back in his hands and lay him down as quickly and smoothly as possible without waking him up more, he'll immediately stop.  Within a minute, he's back to sawing logs on the monitor.  For the early mornings though, I don't know if you'll be able to make it till 7:00.  6:30-7:00 is a long haul and some babies just wake early.  If nursing him gets him and you an extra 1.5 hours of sleep, it just may be worth continueing.  You can try it without and see how he does though.  Nursing in the AM never worked on my DS.  I usually just leave him and he ends up going back to sleep after a bit of playing.

Deb, I was re-reading your post and also wondered if you're medicating or not?  I hate doing it, but sometimes I resort to it when Asher's miserable and making me miserable too!  :lol:  Have you tried offering very soft finger foods?  Sounds like she's exerting her independence by refusing the spoon, but not eating solids because her gums hurt?  And I'm sure you've thought of this possibility, but maybe it's too early, but do you think she could be trying to consolidate to one nap?  I read they start refusing the pm nap when they're ready.  Could be just a fluke though.  Hope she throws you a bone soon!

Tarri, I was waking Asher after 1:15 hrs, but ever since our CA trip, his sleep sorted itself out quite nicely.  I'm not sure how though.  So now I let him sleep as long as he wants in the AM, as long as it's not past noon (otherwise it pushes everything back too late for my taste).  He never seems to go more than 1.5 hrs in the am though.  And he's been taking good 1.5-2 hour afternoon naps.  I also take him outside to play for 20 min every afternoon, so I'm not sure if this helps at all??  It's not like it's very physical though.


Well, after Asher's 3 hour nap yesterday, he's take 30 minutes today.  :?   I think all the construction trucks outside have kept him awake.

[sedona314]

Deb, I'm sure this is a phase, but I cant imagine how tough you are having it right now.  I recommend putting something that smells like you in the crib with her.  I also highly recommend homeopathy for her anxiety.  Do you have a health food store nearby?  I would go there and get a remedy for anxiety, and give her the pellets according to directions.
Homeopathy is safe, but you should get somebody who knows their stuff to let you know which is the best remedy.   Chamomilla is a good one (I use it for teething and overall calm for Matty).

Good luck and I'm thinking of you!

Julie

[Deb_in_oz]

HI all

Thank you SOOOOO much for all the support and ideas. here is our update:

feeding: last 48+ hrs have gone well, she has had almost no spoon food (just yogurt tonight and she did 80% of it herself) and has increased her eating enough to start pooping again (we noticed she was not pooping and thought it was due to lack of solids...).  she is eating:lots of pieces of chicken, sausages, cheerios, pasta, crackers, toast, peas, a try at corn, carrots, zucchini, watermelon, cantaloupe, granny smoth apples, nectarine, peaches (these 2 are new this weekend), grapes, yogurt all finger food. do you think this is good enough - her quantity has increased (not sure if due to limiting bottles to 8oz or due to no battle for spoon feeding etc)

sleeping: funny that you mentioned 1 nap julieb, before i saw your post we had day 1 of 1 nap!! yesterday i tried at 9am for first nap even though my gut told me she was not tired yet - no go - gave up and tried again at 9;45 (now pis$ed off) so said forget this - i am not going to battle her, got her up and told Dh to get ready we were taking the girls to the playground for the rest of the morning so we don't have to deal with trying to keep her happy at home. we had a picnic lunch and fresh air etc and put her down at 12:30 and she went to sleep without a peep and slept until 2:45! but that night it still took an hour to get her to sleep (i finally succeded with shh/pat but it was a tiring experience again); she slept until 7am and i tried 9:30 for 1st nap and she was having none of it so we decided to go 1 nap again and put her down at 12:30 again and she went down instantly and slept until 2:30 but unlike yesterday when she woke happy, today she woke screaming and crying still so tired (or teeth pain  :? ) and i tried to resettle but gave up at 2:45 and got her up. we put her to bed at 7:10pm and Dh thought he had shh/patted her to sleep, but hedid not stay to get her through the 5 min hump and she woke right up - - - - -BUT she put herself back to sleep and before 8pm which is huge steps for us!!!   we don't know where this is headed but we have to keep riding it out. i figure if she wakes before 7 i will offer the 9:30 nap but if she sleeps to 7 or later i will go for the 1 nap again.  Dh and i discussed it and i cannot have her naps move to 10/10:30 and 3 because i would never get out of the house (she would nap 10-11, alex 1/1:30-3, olivia 3-4:30  :shock:  me = hostage to the house)

this way if it works with 1 nap i don't have to stress about the mornings anymore and we can start going to gym class again (alex's class is at 10:20am) and i can start taking liv to swim class, they don't have to worry about getting her to nap at daycare on Mondays, etc   WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?
Sep anxiety - still HUGE. she has cried so much this week that her voice is messed up - she almost sounds like a smoker - all raspy   :cry: I think i might try sleeping with something for her cot and laying it under her sheet (maybe one of my pillow cases).  also, she has this soft doll that she loves (she chews on her feet) and i was thinking of trying to put it in with her - the problem with my spirited lo is that everything is a game to her then (Dh tried a cold teething ring the other night and she played with it for ages instead of trying to go to sleep)  do your lo not play with their lovies for ages???

teething: she has the bottom 2 teeth SLOWLY coming in (1 poked through a smidge, other one barely to the surface) she is chewing on everything.  with all the issues we are/were having it is hard to break it down.  i give a great natural teething remedy (posted about it months ago - by a co called Brauer) and also Nurofen (lasts 6-8 hours) or panadol (lasts 4-6 hours) sometimes Dh forgets to give her teething stuff (i try to remind him when i can)

i think it has just been so hard because with such a tangle of issues it is hard to tell what to tackle and what to ride out etc. I wonder if that week when she was sleeping loads was her way of storing up sleep to finally get those teeth to come in, or if she is about to walk, or the whole drop to 1 nap thing  :?  The sep anxiety is the worst of all the problems, but as i said to Dh, since it suddenly got terrible when he went back to work, i am hoping that is the peak and we will experience it taipering off (WHO KNOWS)

i hope everyone else is doing well - those with drop shots postings i have been catching up and all your kiddos look great and are still amazing me (especially watching the walkers)

[Jaime]

Deb - if i could get luke to eat that variety of finger food, i could die happy now!   :lol:  especially the meat; he does not seem to want it unless it's pureed lately.   :roll:  that looks like a great variety of foods, and it sounds like she's much happier that way. 

naps - sounds like she could be ready for one.  only thing i might warn is i've seen some posts where during the transition they will do one nap for several days, and then throw in a day where they need 2.  just something to keep in the back of your mind (like you need to remember more stuff!)  also... just to play devil's advocate.... any chance alex can take her nap later in the day?  jaina doesn't go down most days until 3 or 3:30 anymore, and i get her up at 5.  although, as i type this, i'm remembering you like that earlier bedtime... so maybe scratch that (we do bedtime at 8pm).  overall, i think if Liv will make the transition to 1 nap now, life seems like it would be much smoother for you.

loveys - yes, luke plays with his loveys when i put him in his crib, but i think it's part of his winddown.  i think the most i've heard him play is still under 10 minutes and he's conked out - usually with one of them over his face!   :lol:

[HeatherC]

I'm having a hard time with Kelsey playing rather than sleeping at nap time.  At first, it was just a few minutes, but over time it has increased to up to 1 hr.  Then, by the time she falls asleep and sleep for 1 hr 20-30 mins, she's been in there for 2.5 hrs.  She's never upset, just playing or babbling.  I almost want to take the doll out, but I think she'd find something else (her feet).  For the past 3 days she's never fallen asleep for her pm nap, so I just get her up when it would be time if she had slept.  Weird thing is that she's happy.  Don't curse me with saying she's dropping a nap.  I think she just goes through spells of good naps and not so good naps.
Feeding her has been tricky lately.  I suppose she's refusing the jar foods now, but the finger foods can be a battle also.  I've found several things to feed her, but it's like she gets tired of eating after a few bites.  So after too many outbursts on her part, I just get her out of the highchair and move on.  I'll over a snack later, which she'll take, so I guess she'll eat when she's hungry.  But, of course I'm stressed over it.