MPI Mummies

[*Liz*]

OK so another poop question .

So I have eliminated all obvious dairy but I guess quite a bit of hidden still gets by - I'm working on that part!

Her poos have changed - now very loose, still mustard, more mucus and all the seeds have gone! Where are the seeds and why is there more mucous?!

[EloysH]

Liz have you moved from strings to mucus?  I think that ths strings are more severe reaction and the mucus means still reacting but not such severe damage.  That's just my practical mind, there's no medical reasoning behind it.  Seeds are just to do with the fat content of the milk, it could just be that  last few feeds didn't have so much fat content as before. Again, that's a theory.

Give it a full three weeks (from start of dairy free) for gut healing to occur. It could be a) the gut is healing and you need to wait b) there is something in the milk that is still not agreeing -i.e soy   So if the three weeks is up and still alot of mucus you might have to look at taking out soy.

[~inbalance~]

Seeds are all gone here too, they disappeared with the mucous.  I agree, give it more time to see how things progress. 

[Gypsymom]

I'm with you Liz on the watch and wait brigade. I am pretty sure that MPI is big for us, I just hope the still-mucuous doesn't mean more large food groups to avoid! A very dramatic (diaper and gas/arching) reaction to strawberries is what convinced me that S was just not "normal" so I cut out dairy and I've since gotten suspicious about peanuts and shellfish (it was shrimp) too. How many months will it take for babe to outgrow the sensitivity (I hear that many/most do, but don't know how long)?

The link Rachel posted had an extra comma. Try just clicking through on this expanded one: http://www.foodallergyliving.net/category/nutrition-specialist-column/signs-and-symptoms-of-a-milk-allergy/

Martina, do you think that your overall fat content in your diet has gone down b/c of the special diet (cheese!!)? Also, you mentioned you don't really have any excess weight left, so perhaps that = less seedy too? I still have a bit of chub left too though and we don't have seeds very often either - I figured it's b/c Sterling's guts are still quite inflamed and the transit/digestion time is too short?  It's great that F has gained well. S has been slow (in my books, not FTT or anything) to grow. I think he really does feel heavier now since I started a week ago today on all dairy out - shall have to go have a weigh on Tues. to see!

I've got my mom thinking that my younger ('colicky') brother was probably MPI too. She gave up BFing him as she was totally exhausted but then regretted the switch to (soy) formula later. Both my parents are just shocked that breastmilk can "still contain" foods that upset babe's tummy's so much.

[~inbalance~]

Good points about the fat content in my diet making a difference.  I wouldn't have thought of it, but makes total sense!

One thing's for sure, I should be super skinny in no time with this diet! 

I also started F on probiotics last weekend, so that probably has something to do with his change in poos.  He is also pooping less frequently, one or two hefty ones a day as opposed to the smaller, mucousy poops we were getting after every feed last week.

Definitely need to give the diet time to see it's effects.  I was in the boat where I wasn't sure if I should be cutting more foods because even after eliminating dairy we were still getting mucous, but it did disappear, just took some additional time.

[*Liz*]

Hmmmm do we need to worry about low fat content in the milk? Will it affect LO at all ie growth and ting between feeds?

[Peek-a-boo]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about fat content in milk at all.  If you are worried, try including some more healthy fats in your diet like avocados, olives, nuts, etc.  Avocado/quacamole have a great creamy  texture if you're missing the feel of cheese.   

For sweets, if you get a non-dairy margarine or coconut oil, you can sub that in for butter in any cookie recipe and make any sweet treat you normally would. 

Home made chicken stock is supposed to have as much calcium per cup as milk, so that can be a good way to add calcium to your diet as well.  I try to cook with it as much as possible. 

[Gypsymom]

How about facial rashes? I've been DF for a week now and it's definitely helped, but mucousy poos continue and now this rash business. It started a few days ago and we figured it was a skin allergy thing due to being held by my mom who washes all her things in a very strong detergent. She started covering herself with a blanket washed in my soap and I thought it was getting better. But, now I'm not sure. Is this likely related to MPI? I'm toying with giving up the soy too but TBH I'm already finding the zero dairy pretty restrictive (eating out or grabbing something is a disaster. must get a new repertoire and find time to make some safe snackies). Will head over to the recipe board for that I guess. But the rash has me worried and I keep expecting the diapers to look "good".

[~inbalance~]

It it like eczema?  Because I think that is definitely an allergy symptom, but not sure how to narrow it down. 

Maybe it's just baby acne though?

[Gypsymom]

It might be baby acne. I looked at some pics last night and it seems possible, but given how many other symptoms S has for MPI, it might be that still working its way out of his system? Wouldn't that be weird if milk protein was actually some how excreted through the skin!??

Do we post food-related issues on this thread? or maybe http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=119689.0

or is it just 'anything goes' over here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=168636.0 ??

I'm wondering about plums and/or prune juice. If I eat them to help me, will it give babe loose bowels too? How about bran muffins? MPI makes sense to me but I don't really understand how other foods that are oft avoided (say broccoli) can make your milk gassy. If the cows eat clover, it doesn't taste funny, does it? I have heard of garlic flavoring milk though and apparently many babies preferred it in a trial!

Also looking for advice re: eating out. Do I just give the waitress a list of all the suspect words and hope the kitchen will read the labels!? Are there any known national places in Canada that are a good choice? I read Tim Horton's has some stuff but cross-contamination is a problem - do you think I need to worry about that? I've been off yeast for months, but I'm wondering about adding it back in - to not be able to have bread either really limits a menu, especially out (I know some of you ladies are GF, egg, etc so I can't imagine even more issues).

Eloise, I think you mentioned elsewhere that with DS1 you could eat hidden dairy and soy and cooked dairy. How and when did you find that out? Also, citric acid is a reflux trigger too, right (I was just gonna eat some lemon pie pudding!).

I am off all dairy now for over a week and things are much better but not the diapers. Will give it another week and then I'll eliminate obvious soy (I'm not having that much, but some) and then all soy. After that I guess I'd try eggs, gluten, and all nuts (already off peanuts, shellfish, berries, oranges, and very cautious about tomatoes) but hoping not to get to that point.

[EloysH]

Shannon:
The way i've had it explained to me about excema and skin with food intolerances is that those skin problems are a reflection of an unhappy gut, a gut that is reacting to proteins also manifests in the skin. There are a number of allergy websites on excema and food that can explain this alot better, i will look for a link.  So the way to heal skin is through the gut.  Same goes for thrush, escpecially systemic. Its actually the gut that has the bacteria imbalance.

The gassy foods like broccolli / cauliflower / eggs have sulphur in them when digested create gas through the system. Foods liem gluten, yeast and lactose ferment in the gut if not tolerated, causing overgrowth of yucky bacteria and thus gas/bloating/abdominal pain, and damage to the ttract - hence mucus.

Citrus/tomato is a reflux trigger, jsut gotta test whether LO can tolerate it in your milk. Kai seems totolerate citrus, but not tomato based dishes.  Still confirming though.

Re the hidden soy/dairy, I just started dairy/soy free since birth, and still ate hidden stuff as I did it as a precaution.  By the time he was 4 weeks old I was also gluten free, gas food free, spices and chilli low chemicals and preservative where possoible.  Anyway, he has never had mucus in his poo or green mucus until the vaccs and the gluten food challenge that I did last week.  So my gauge has been his poos.  So I figure that I am getting away with the hidden stuff. 

Although I had a fermented gut issue with Kai early on, a mixture of lactose overload from milk and also from the foods that cause fermneation of the gut, so his poos were bubbly, squirty, profuse and loose, he had lots of tummy and intestinal pain and used to grunt ALL day with wind.     That all stoped by about 7-8 weeks though.

 I do have to say I do not really eaten hidden stuff anyway, because I am gluten free, that excludes most baked goods, biscuits etc.  So its not a trialled and tested thing.  I just don;t worry too much about soy lecthin or vegetable oil, I don't eat soy flour anyway, and I don't eat any of the biscuits with whey powders or things like that in them.

Well done on the dairy free!!!   Sounds like you are making great progress.

[Gypsymom]

Thanks, Eloise. Sorry you are having such a slog (reading your other posts on sleep, etc).

How about facial rashes? I've been DF for a week now and it's definitely helped, but mucousy poos continue and now this rash business. It started a few days ago and we figured it was a skin allergy thing due to being held by my mom who washes all her things in a very strong detergent. She started covering herself with a blanket washed in my soap and I thought it was getting better. But, now I'm not sure. Is this likely related to MPI? I'm toying with giving up the soy too but TBH I'm already finding the zero dairy pretty restrictive (eating out or grabbing something is a disaster. must get a new repertoire and find time to make some safe snackies)

Not gotten any answers about where to post which type of thread...

So, went for a big shop early this week to try to stock up on foods I *could* eat. Clinic nurse told me DS's rash was baby acne. Poor thing has it all over his face, and some on his neck, ears and top of his back too. Then, suddenly the screaming and terrible sleeping returned with a vengeance. In some ways this was probably good as DH has been saying "I'm not sure what you're doing is making a difference" and I was like "are you kidding me!? S is night and day better since I went 100% dairy free; not perfect (ah, those ruddy diapers!) but so, so, much better". Going back to that for a couple of days has convinced him. So now for a couple of days I have tried to stop eating most of the new foods I purchased as something in there obviously was a big problem. I had soy yogurt, hummus, halibut, dark chocolate, and corn meal muffins as the things I can think of that were 'new' so I haven't touched any of them again. Had been having a bit of soy milk on my oatmeal, but using rice milk (not great!!) instead. The wonderful thing is that yesterday was SO much better again so I am pretty certain that it is a food thing. Even more encouraging is that S's rash appears to be receding (so maybe not baby acne afterall!?). The problem is that I don't know which food is the culprit. We've had some killer diapers here since this all started, and heaps more reflux. I see a doc on Tuesday for the first time since he was 2 weeks and don't really know what to hope for there. My instinct is that his reflux and miserability (is that a word!?) is being pretty well controlled by diet. If we could get rid of the mucous I'd say we are okay now. But now that we've had this big setback (only other thing was if I somehow had a big serving of dairy unknowingly but I don't think this is likely as am being so careful - have settled for only salads and/or broths in restaurants a couple of times - left starving!) I don't know how much longer to wait for no more yuck. Should I ask for a blood stool test even though I think he's on the mend? I want to wait until he's all healed up before trying back anything on the list above (1 at a time, soy last as that seems the most likely).

What would you do (especially re the app't)?

[prana]

is there any link to bottle fed poo's?

[*Liz*]

There isn't on here honey - BUT on that link the bottom picture is a FF baby.

[donna_issabella]

Hey Liz, was almost going to ask why you were up, but I see it is 720am and you are 'allowed' to be up and on BW

HUGS and good luck for today! Hopefully the blood clears ASAP!