Early morning waking 10.5 month old

[LovelyLilyandJack]

I think it could be either - too little A time at the start or end of the day can cause issues...  Once she's on 1 nap that should address both of those! 

If she sleeps for 2hrs at 11 I would probably skip the cn at do an EBT instead, but if you stick with that CN window she should self-regulate on that.  If you do this:
 

You could maybe start with a nap at 11 as a set time, and offer a cat nap at 3.30ish for a while. If she doesn't take it,  then do an EBT  at 6 - 6.30ish. If she does, then do a set BT of 7?

Then it's highly unlikely that she'd take another nap only 2.5hrs after a nice long 2hr nap unless she was really very tired, so that should help her to self regulate

[NinNic]

Thanks for advice.  It makes sense. 

Today she refused CN, she woke 12:40 pm from her nap so slept less than 2 hrs. She fell asleep 6:23 pm for BT.

If she starts waking later in morning i.e. 5:30/ 6 am, should I already then push nap to 11:30/12 or wait for a week?

[LovelyLilyandJack]

I would hold it at 10.30 for a week, with cn if need be, then move it to 11. You're going to hit an awkward phase where she has some long afternoons / EW with long morning A's, but you've got to push on through it to get solidly on one nap.  You'll get there

[NinNic]

Oh I thought you said nap at 11 am to start with, which I have done and even today a bit later as she seemed fine and as she woke a bit later today (5:23 am) compared to previous 2 days. Is it too much to push nap to around 11-11:30? It´s just she seems to sleep longer with the longer A time in am. I feel she is ready for 1 nap, hope not pushing too much though? Also CN has been to close to am nap and yesterday she refused it completely after 1 hr 40 min am nap.

If she now sleeps around 2 hr nap around 11:30 am to 1:30 pm, when is a good BT for her? Guess it still depends on her WU time? If it is 5:30/6 am to start with?

When she is at WU 6:30/7 am at what time would nap be and BT?


Last 3 days of EASY since started push nap:

Sun 21 June:
WU 5
S 11:10-13:20
BT 18:31

Mon 22 June:
WU 5:10
S 11:03-12:40
Refused CN
BT 18:23

Tues 23 June:
WU 5:23
S 11:25-13:21
BT 18:42

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Sorry, I did say 11am for a set nap time to start with!  Sorry, I've got loads going on here at the moment. I think my brain is protesting!

It does look like she's settling into one nap well.  If you've done 3 days of a set nap at 11 you could push it to 11.30, but then I'd hold that for a week at least,  to let her adjust. I probably would only offer a cn then if she seems really tired, and even then only for 15-20 minutes. Your day looks pretty good, so I'd stick with a 6.30 BT for now and if she maintains 11hr nights then look to shifting it.  But I'd keep the 11.30 nap and 6.30 BT for a week first 

[NinNic]

Thanks for quick reply! I can imagine you have a lot! Sorry to keep writing, but for me this BW forum is really amazing with what help and advice I get! Thanks a million!!! 

Great, I will stick with it for a week and let you know how it goes!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Don't worry - post as often as you like!  I only wish I could be more responsive more often  

Glad you're enjoying the forums - I love them too 

[NinNic]

Hi again,

WAnt to post last days lf EASY as she is not sleeping enough at night. She hasn't slept more than 1.5 hrs for am nap, She has slept for CN and therefore going to bed later but still waking around 5 am. I don't want her to get OT. What do you think I should do, keep CN or put to bed earlier? We are staying at my parents so dont know if that is affecting her sleep, dont think so.

EASY:
Wed:
WU 5 am
S 10:58-12:23
S 16:16-16:23 took 10 mins to fall asleep in pram, were travelling so couldnt get her to sleep earlier
BT 19:33 took her 43 mins to fsll asleep

Thu:
WU 5
S 11:18-12:46
S 15:44-16:00 took her 25 mins to fall asleep in pram
BT 19:15 took her 35 mins to fall asleep

Fri:
WU 4:45 got her back to sleep 5:10 woke 5:45

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Hi, sorry for the late reply - I've been away for a few days. The EWing could be related to being away - we've just had 3 mornings of 5.30am starts where we've been away and we're reliably on post -6am WUs normally, and no naps so the EWs are nothing to do with them!

How long are you away for?

[NinNic]

We are back home now since Monday afternoon. When away had to pat her at BT or calm her.

When I didn't hear from you, I decided to put her to bed earlier with 1 nap instead of CN also, as I didn't want days to get too long.

Have now had nap at 11:30 for over a week like you suggested. Should I keep 11:30 or push?

If she wakes at 5:30, 6 am or later do I still put her to bed at 6/6:30 pm? Do I keep same BT if she sleeps for 2 hr nap or even longer?

These are the last 4 days of EASY:

Sun 28 June: at my parent’s place
WU 5:20
S 11:23-13:45
BT 18:30 took 19 mins to fall asleep, had to calm her few times

Mon 29 June: at my parent’s place, home for BT
WU 4:50 (had pooed, changed and patted didn’t fall asleep)
S 11:26-13:01
BT 18:02 (in bed at home) took 10 mins to fall asleep, had to calm her

Tues 30 June:
WU 5:30
S 11:32-13:13
BT 18:28 took 30 mins to fall asleep,
Woke when put blanket on her at 12 am fell asleep 12:20 am on her own

Wed 1 July:
WU 6:00
S 11:32-13:46
BT 19:05 took 44 mins to fall asleep, had to go in few times and put my hand on her back, in the end pat her til calm (think she might have been too warm and therefor took longer to fall asleep

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Great, I think that cn had to go and it looks like you're nearly there in terms of transitioning to one nap. Her nights are actually a pretty good length now (although shifted a bit early), and her naps look pretty good too.  I would try gradually shifting her day so you can get her nap and BT later, which should also shift her WU time if the cn has gone.  How about a set nap time of 11.45 and a set BT of 6.30 for a few days and see how she goes?

Do you have a sense of whether she prefers a longer first or second A time?

[NinNic]

Thanks for your reply! 

Yesterday EASY looked like this:
WU 5:15
S 11:32-12:51 felt nap was not long enough as she only had about 10 hr night so got her back to sleep 13:10-14:17
BT 18:31 put her to bed at 17:50- maybe a bit early after long nap as it took her some time to fall asleep was crying some also so had to go in few times

This morning woke 5:36.

Hmm I think longer A in morning if she has slept 11 hrs, but find it difficult to say as she is hyper in pm if slept long nap.

Ok will def try 11:45 am, just when she wakes around 5 am it seems to be too long A in am so she tends to not sleep too long for her nap, but maybe necessary for shift?

If she she sleeps 1.5 hrs compared to 2 hr or more still BT at 6:30 pm?

Just to make sure: nap 11:45 am and BT at 6:30 pm even of wakes at 5 and doesn't nap more than 1.5 hrs?

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Yeah, nap set at 11.45am if she prefers long mornings, and BT at 6.30, but I would try and resettle if she doesn't have a long nap (less than 1.5 hrs) like you did yesterday. If she really won't resettle and/ or has woken very early in the morning I'd try an EBT of 6 or 6.15, depending on how bad it is,  but really you need to start shifting her day so I wouldn't let BT get any earlier.  If you think she's struggling I would offer an earlier nap  (11.20?) and do a 15 minute cn at 4ish if she'll let you,  and then a later BT of 7 or 7.30. 

The other thing I did at this stage was go back to offering a cn and move BT really late to shift WU time, and then go fully to one nap when WU  was where I wanted it to be.  It means you'll have a few really late nights / long days, but it did work for us. We used a cat nap in the late afternoon to push BT back to 8ish, which shifted WU to after 6am, at which point the midday nap and 6.30/7 pm bedtime worked better.  I think it took J about 3-4 days to shift WU, even with the later nights, so we had a very tired, grumpy boy for a bit.  But it did work

[NinNic]

Hmm, think I will wait with CN in late pm for late BT and try pushing gradually or maybe it will take too long?

Say she wakes at time I would like her to wake in morning, can I then shift nap to 12, which we are aiming for?

Yesterday EASY:
WU 5:36
S 11:35-13:19
BT 6:29

This morning WU 5:20

Are we in the end aiming for WU 6:30/7, nap 12 and BT 7 or later?

What is min and max time for that 1 nap?

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Are we in the end aiming for WU 6:30/7, nap 12 and BT 7 or later?

What is min and max time for that 1 nap?

Yeah, I would say that would be a good routine to aim for.

Once you're on one nap, anything over 1.5 hrs is good, though my LO  rarely did more than 1hr  20 (that was 2 sleep cycles for him), and that was fine. He's LSN though. I would try and resettle anything less than 1.5 hrs.  In terms of a maximum,  I wouldn't say there is one at this stage - I would always let her sleep uncapped. If she starts lengthening her nap and shortening her night then you might need to temporarily cap it to get her back on track,  but 11hr nights look good to me, so I'd leave the nap uncapped 

In terms of shifting her day, yes, I would definitely take advantage of a late WU to shift the nap and BT if you get the chance