3.5 mo NWs and short naps

[lilac83]

That is excellent news about the long AM nap! I hope the rest of the day continued in the same pattern.

Definitely continue letting her sooth herself to sleep at night. That will help a lot. She'll get the hang of it in a few days.

[brenda2]

well we've had some success, but i can't seem to find a pattern.

we acheived 1 perfect day of textbook 4 hour EASy on friday, but that night she still woke 4 times.  i fed her twice and let her fuss until she actually was crying before going in to help her back to sleep (which was a quick turn her onto her side) the other 2 times

the last 2 days have been very mixed up in terms of naps.  saturday was mixed up but i think the total daytime sleep was ok and i don't think she was ot at bedtime.  same story overnight, 4 nws, 2 for feeds.

sunday was also weird, she was very fussy and crying about an hour after she got up so i put her down for a nap way before i wanted to which led to a strange day but at least we got 1 long nap.  then she refused the last catnap (went out for a walk in the stroller but didn't fall asleep), so she was awake for 3 hours before she went down for the night, and this was after a short nap.  i thought the night would be terrible but it was the best yet.  only 2 nws, and i fed her both times because i thought she was hungry.

so i'm confused.  maybe last night was better because i've been letting her try to self soothe more? or maybe she needs the last A time to be the longest?  i know A time can fluctuate throughout the day.

anyway, still working at it, trying to keep her up a bit longer and hoping for long naps!

[lilac83]

That's interesting about the long A before bed leading to the best night. My DD LOVES long A's before bed. She was having 4hr A time before bed when she was 7mos old. It could just be the simple fact that she's gotten used to trying to self sooth. You'll just have to experiment a bit.

[brenda2]

yesterday every nap would have been long (yay!)...unfortunately i had to wake her up early (at the 1 hour and 1 hour 10 min mark) of the second 2 naps due to appointment and daycare runs.  anyway, repeated the long (3 hour) A time before bed.  and last night she woke at 10:30, and 3 for a feed and then at 4 and it took an hour to shh pat and let her fuss until she fell back to sleep from 5 until 6:30.  and then this morning first nap was an hour.
yes, still experimenting here. i do think she likes the last A time to be longer, even though last night wasn't great.
she's so different from dd1, it's hard to figure her out because i think she's going to do the same thing as dd1 but what worked for her is not working for dd2!  dd1 was textbook-spirited (textbook for sleep) and i think dd2 is angel-touchy.  sleep and feeding are definately touchy.  any advice for touchy sleepers?

[lilac83]

Have you checked out the support thread for touchy LO's in the EASY forum? You'll probably find some tips there. I think the biggest thing with touchy LO's is to increase their A time very slowly. If she's low sleep needs though, that should work on your side when she does end up with short naps here and there.

It sounds like you've definitely made some progress though!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, Finn is Touchy with sleep and in the beginning (and by beginning I just mean like 2 months ago lol), we had a heck of a time with him & naps.  He needed a decent wind down, quite long, and v. dark room, had to be half swaddled and also white noise.  This helped block out the stimulation.  He seemed always overstimulated.

Now at almost 6.5 months he seems to have gotten a grip on stimulation and how to deal with it.  We aren't swaddling anymore unless he is completely OT, the wind down is really short and we leave him to it in his crib.  But we do still use the white noise and his room is very dark.  So it gets better and you will find what she likes by experimenting.

You are making great progress!

[brenda2]

I guess it's all about the experimenting!

She doesn't need much wind down to go to sleep. It's not the going to sleep that's the problem it's the staying asleep!

I do use white noise and she is swaddled with one arm out so she can suck her thumb. I think she does get overstimulated but with dd1 being on the run and always in her face ( she loves her too much) I'm not sure what I can do about it.

Last night she was in bed at 6:45. She woke up at 7:30 and since she had pretty much refused her last feed I fed her. Then she woke at 10:30, 1:30 and 5. Pretty much every 3 hours so it wasconceivable that she was hungry. But this is worse than she was doing as a newborn. At least she went right back to sleep.

I guess the longer naps and longer A times are progress but it does t feel much like progress

[lilac83]

Do you think she's going through her 4mos growth spurt?

That 5am waking doesn't surprise me. It seems most LO's have trouble with that final sleep transition for the first few months. DD had problems there until she was about 6mos old. Did you feed her at the 1:30am feed? Having gone from 7:30pm that one was probably genuine hunger. The 10:30pm one though definitely shouldn't be there. Usually wakings in the first half of the night are driven by OT, how was her day sleep?

[brenda2]

maybe it's a growth spurt.  i really don't know.  i can't figure her out at all.  with dd1 she was so textbook, but this is completely different.

monday:
6:40 E
8:30-10:30 S
10:30 E
12-1 S
2 E
2:45-3:55 S
4:45 E
6:30 E
6:45 bed
10:30 E
3 E
4 awake 1 hour, shh pat back to sleep

tuesday
6:30 E
8:30-9:30 S
9:30 E
11-11:45 S
12-12:50 S
1 E
2:30-4:20 S
4:20 E
6:15 E (only for a few minutes she was so tired)
6:30 bed
7:45 awake E
9:30 awake
10:30 E
1:30 E
5 E

wednesday (best day and night lately)
7 E
8:50-10:20 S
10:20 E
12:15-2 S
2 E
3:40-4:20 S
4:20 E
6 E
6:20 bed
11 E
2:30 E
4 awake 2 min easy to go back to sleep

today
6:15 E
8-9 S
9 E
long A here but we were at dd1s music class so she was OT and OS by the time we got home
11-11:30 S
tried shh pat for 30 min, no luck, took her out for 30 min then tried again but took her a long time to settle to sleep
1-2 S
2:30 E because she was so fussy
3:30-4:30 S
5:45 E
6:15 bed
that was the worst day lately for naps...i'm hoping the early bedtime will make up for it but i don't think tonight will be very good.

basically i am feeding her if she wakes up at night and it's been more than 3 hours since her last feed.  but i know for some of those nws she's not hungry, i just don't have the energy to shh pat her back to sleep only to have her wake up in an hour or 2 needing a feed.  except for monday night when she was awake and screaming for an hour just after a feed usually she just goes back to sleep if i feed her.

ahhh, todays nap were really discouraging.  even when i repeat the same A time she doesn't necessarily do a long nap for me, and today i had 2 1 hour naps which is weird because i felt like she was OT all day.

[lilac83]

She really doesn't seem to be following any sort of pattern, is she? Are you continuing with the waiting at night to see if she'll put herself back to sleep?

The only other thing jumping out at me is her feedings still being just 3hrs apart. Perhaps she's starting to snack and that's why she's waking every 3ish hours at night?

[brenda2]

I am getting really discouraged. Things seem to be getting worse. I am trying my best and I know bw techniques worked well with my dd1 but nothing seems to be working with this baby.  She is all over the place as you noted, no particular routine. I do count A time and put her down for regular naps but I haven't been able to stretch her A time and I keep getting short naps

when I do try to keep her up longer than about 1:45 she does a 30 min nap and then cries and cries and it's hard to get her back down. As a result of the short naps it's really hard to get the feeds to 4 hours. You may be right about the snacking.

 I don't k ow what to do. I am consistent when she wakes at night. I either feed her if it's been 3 hours or shh pat but iris not working to eliminate the extra wakings

last night she was in bed at 6:30, woke at 11, shh pat, 12 E, 3:30 E, 4:40 shh pat for an hour, 5:50 E up for the day at 6:20.

I am so tired and nothing is working. She is such a good baby a d goes to sleep so easily I don't know what to do about these nws are really getting me down.

[~Lori~]

Wow Brenda, once again our kiddos sound so similar!  The last 3 nights, Tanner has been awake a TON at night.  Waking BEFORE his dreamfeed time, waking at 12:40---on Saturday night, would NOT go back down till 3:40, even with feeding him.  Last night woke before dreamfeed, at 12:40, and after we gave him his paci, let him fuss for 45 minutes and he went to sleep.  Naps have gotten better recently but still have a lot of 35 minute ones.

Hang in there.  I am trying so hard to get to 3.5-4 hr easy but it's so tough with short naps.  And then with the night wakings, I'm just zonked

[lilac83]

Have you ever considered giving her some melatonin to see if that will help regulate her sleep cycles? I personally have never used it but have read about quite a few people on this forum who do use it. It's completely natural.

Honestly, you're doing everything correctly. Given the fact that she doesn't have a prop and can fall asleep independently, she *shouldn't* be having as many issues with sleep as she is. As you've been trying to extend her A time, how much have you been trying to add? With touchy babies, some can only handle a 5min increase once per week. Touchy babies are *extremely* sensitive to A times.

With the night feedings, I would start extending the length of time between feeds during the night. Removing some calories from the night and adding them to her day might help some. When you do feed her at night, is she falling asleep on the feed? If so, this could be part of the problem. When she wakes, she doesn't know if you will feed her back to sleep or not so she just keeps waking. Almost like a prop, but not completely, if that makes sense. So, try to wake her a bit before laying her back in her crib after a night feed.

[brenda2]

Well maybe she read my email and saw how frustrated I was because last night was quitegood. She fed at 11 and 3, went back to sleep easily, And then slept through until 7. Best night in a month. And she took a really good feed this morning so maybe this will help get her onto a 4 hour schedule and stop the snacking, here's hoping.
Nothing was different about her day yesterday  so I don't know why last night was different. This morning she did a 2 hour A and a 1:50 nap. So maybe today will be different?
At night I have been feeding her until she falls off, she is mostly asleep I think though she does
move a bit when I put her back down. Last night I fed her sitting up in her room, not lying down as usual so I wouldn't fall asleep feeding her as I sometimes do. Maybe this was the difference?  She shouldn't expect to be fes back to sleep every time because I don't always feed hr when she wakes at night, sometimes I shh pat if it's only been an hour.
Anyway, will keep working away and try to get her on the 4 hour EASY, I didn't really in rease herA too quick, it went from about 1:30 to 1:45 and now it's about 1:50 when I lie her down hough if she's
fussy before that I put her down. And it's been over the course of
2 weeks

[~Lori~]

Brenda, you said the DF never worked with your little one.  I think I am going to sack the DF tonight.  It used to do better, but now, DS is waking up 2 hr after a DF (of 5oz) and won't go back to sleep.  I even fed him the other night and it didn't get him back to sleep.  I'm wondering if the DF is really disrupting his sleep cycles now b/c we've really been regressing lately