Long NWs, no crying - just trying to sleep, any new eyes very welcome!

[*Liz*]

Laura - I've just been reading through and seeing 'what happened next' - sorry you are still having such a hard time with all of this.

I did FINALLY get that information off my colleague about the septrin and nothing came to light at all. No case reports of insomnia or sleep disturbance linked to it.

But then I was thinking and wondering - when J is teething he tends to sleep better without meds - and calpol has never helped his sleep. Never made him sleep longer and never been any help at all. In fact he goes a bit hyper on it. Does on most medications. Even antihistamines don't really seem to make him sleepy. I noticed you said calpol never helped for teething and nap lengths for you as well.

So now I wonder if there is something in the medicines rather than the medicine itself that is affecting your LO. The additives and falvourings etc. It there anything common to most meds that are in a syrup that could be contributing?

I remember my local pharmacist telling me that she preferred to use full sugar calpol rather than the sugar free stuff as the sugar free had so many additives and seemed to do funny things to her LO.

But this is the kind of stuff doctors (and I CAN say this  ) are not very good at thinking about as it is all unquantified.

((hugs)) to you. Just another set of random thoughts really  ?

[babybarr]

Thanks Liz and thanks for sticking with me.

My GP is currently looking into the septrin too, but another mum on the immune forum I post on said she'd had insomnia on septrin 

DS has long spells without meds at all, and I have to say I did wonder myself if the meds were causing an issue but he'll go for weeks without and only very rarely has them at naps.  The "meds" I have been talking about just recently has been the antihistamine suggested by my GP and TBH they have absolutely been making him drowsy and helping him sleep but I was only willing to try and "reset" his body clock, hence the doing it for a week and now again without.  Maybe him having a later nap in the day will eventually solve the problem - who knows....  The thing is at this rate he'll be napping later and later and going to be the same time as me!  (which is about 9pm nowadays!  )

[babybarr]

He slept an hour and 20mins...best nap in a very long time!

[mmom]

Yay! Great nap!

He is still fighting the early bedtime despite the long morning A?  My LO was doing that to me for a while too and then I made is afternoon A REALLY short to keep his bedtime early (or earlier) and he eventually went with it.

[babybarr]

He is still fighting the early bedtime despite the long morning A?  My LO was doing that to me for a while too and then I made is afternoon A REALLY short to keep his bedtime early (or earlier) and he eventually went with it.

He has done before.... but I'll put him down at usual time and then he has the opportunity to go to sleep earlier.  Useful to know though that he may just get used to it!  What times is your DS doing at the mo? 

Franchick - I always appreciate you thinking of me.  At some point (hopefully soon) I'll allow you to uncross everything!!

[babybarr]

Please give me strength!!

Last night - asleep by 7 (which is good given the late and longer nap)
Woke 12ish for 1.5hrs or a bit more (this is the average he used to wake for before the meds)
Awake for the day at 6am......

So a night of about 9.5hrs, where am I going wrong.  I really had hoped this may have helped but I am so at a loss now.
I haven't heard from my GP so that's likely to be thurs/fri now.

I will try a nap at around the 12.30/45pm mark and see what happens tonight with a marginally longer A before bed.  We're on day 4 of later nap so I'll give it another 2 days and then do you think I should try no nap or mega short nap?  I think it'll be hard to keep him going though....

[londonmama]

9.5 hour night and 4:45 am start here too, so many sympathies!

Was that the first night you tried no sleeping meds?

[babybarr]

Yes  

If it was 9.5hrs straight for us that'd at least be an improvement.  It's this sleeping straight through that is the problem.

Has you LO got teeth coming?  We always have crazily EWs with teeth.

[londonmama]

Ugh.  That really sucks.  In some ways it is a "good" result that you've seen a difference with the meds, isn't it?  I.e. you can tell the doctor/sleep clinic that it's not behavioural because the meds make a difference.  But on the other hand, where do you go from here??

Poor LO.  He looks so dashing in his little suit!

Yes, I think teeth here.  Can see some white under the surface of one of the canines.  I really didn't believe it was teeth until today because he is not even 15 months old and it seems so early for canines.

[babybarr]

He looks so dashing in his little suit!

Thanks.  He was a page boy for my brother's wedding in December and we've just got the photos.

I don't know what to do next....  I guess just wait until the GP gets back to me!

Did your LO get his other teeth early?  The canines really are a PITA!

[londonmama]

It's amazing when you look at photos of all of these gorgeous LOs and then think of all the worry they cause us on here with their crazy sleep and other issues!  I really hope the GP is able to help.

Can you go back to meds tonight to try to help him catch up, or does he need a break from them.

Hope your day improves!

My LO has been teething constantly since 7 months, and had his molars fully in by 13.5 months.  But I think that is pretty normal, so these canines are definitely early.  I think I will have heart failure if it actually takes until he is 18 months for these teeth to come through!

[*Liz*]

Y'know - if I read this and knew nothing of your history with your poor DS it does read as pure OT (not a helpful remark, of course!). Also better sleep with sleepy med things also reads as being OT really, I think. For a LO anyway - might be different for an adult.

But I guess doing a nap cut on him might actually help you out quite a lot here - if it gets worse he is OT and if it gets better he is mega low sleep needs.

I know that kind of oversimplifies it - but it might just help work out what is causing what iyswim?

Londonmama - canine chaos IS choas I'm afraid. We got loads of EWs first, then lots of NWs. Lasted a good few weeks. From 16 - 17 mths so I don't think 15 mths is too early really.

[*Becky*]

Londonmama - we have been in canine chaos for a month already and it started at 15 months! We get days when he seems fine and then we get strange nights with lots of on/off moaning and the bad naps are worse than ever!
Laura - I wish I knew what to suggest but hugs xxx

[babybarr]

Y'know - if I read this and knew nothing of your history with your poor DS it does read as pure OT

I know I know....  I just don't know how to get rid of the OT, it has been going on so long now too that even after a week of better sleep things are now back to square one.  I also believe that it gets worse the more OT he gets. 

I know that kind of oversimplifies it - but it might just help work out what is causing what iyswim?

I guess  I'm just not sure how to get him through the day with no nap though....  My only other thought is a much later bedtime (although previously this hasn't helped and only meant an hour or so less sleep overall - so that also would suggest OT wouldn't it?)

This evening DH and I went for a lovely meal, got in around 10.15pm, 10.30pm he's sat up talking, acting out his day... eyes open, I really don't think it's "sleepwalking" but now am wondering... however he now is calling me so maybe that's answered that one too!

[grace annes mommy]

Laura - I have seen a lot of your posts and keep meaning to drop in and say I'm following along. I guess I haven't had a ton of advice, so haven't. But I do want to drop off some big (HUGS).

Could you give the meds tonight and hope for a touch more sleep?  I'm glad you and you're DH got out for a meal. Boy, do you deserve a break!

Does your LO respond to APOP of any kind?  I know he's waking in the night, but not necessarily crying.  And as a result is probably really OT.  Could you go to him and rock him or anything?  Just to try to catch him up on sleep a bit?  Or what about co-sleeping?  I know I'm probably entering un-BW avenues here, but I'm just trying to think of how to get him a night that he's more or less slept thru, so you can go from there.

I honestly don't know.... But I'm here, if nothing else than to hold your hand.

Caitlin