easy routine and sleep issues?

[kimmbba]

I'd appreciate any and all ideas regarding how to tweak schedule.  I feel like I've tried everything, but I'm certain I haven't!   Here's how things have been going for the last week.  I've tweaked, and tweaked, and things will go well and somehow keep ending up where I started about every other week.

Wake 5:30 (last two days) 6:30 normally
E 5:30 bottle in hopes of maybe falling back to sleep, hasn't worked
   7 solids
A
S 8:30-8:45 this timing has been his "window", he wants to go back to sleep sooner but I'm not letting him to try to get rid of the EW
A 9:30
E 11
S 12:30-1
A 1:30-2
REFUSES a CN even though it's a heck of a stretch to BT
Bath, Bottle, BT 6-7

Now, we are also getting NW 2-3 after midnight.  All SEEM to be hunger related.  I've tried to add water to the EBM, I've tried to cut oz, I've tried to hang out and try to get him back to sleep for hours.  When I add water or cut oz. he wakes up MORE to make up for the missing oz. 

ANY and ALL advicer appreciated!!

[jackman]

Hi Kimmba
When my DS would wake at 5:30am, I would keep him up until 9:30am for his first nap. I know you say that your lo gets tired and wants to sleep sooner, but this time worked well for us and I would get a decent nap of 1.5hrs or more. Then our second nap would be later, around 2 or 2:30 depending on when he woke from his first nap. Basically targeting an A time of 3hrs until his second nap. Perhaps your lo is refusing his second nap because he is OT?

Just an idea???

[kimmbba]

Thanks, I've thought of those possibilities as well.  I was going to try to keep him up longer this morning, but he was so crabby!!  Hopefully the weather will be better tomorrow and I can try to take him out and distract him and try to hold him out until 9:30. 
Do you think that the long A at the end of the day is resulting in the EW?  Or maybe just needs a BT shift once I can get a later second nap?  The later is kind of what I think...

[jackman]

Yes, I think if you can keep him up later for his first nap, then everything else shifts later. Here is what our EASY looked like when my DS was waking at 5:30am.

5:000/5:30am Wake up
7:00am Bottle FF
8:30am Breakfast
9:30am Nap #1 (lately been 1.5hrs and had to wake)
Noon Lunch
2:00pm Bottle FF
2:30pm Nap #2 (lately been 1.5hrs and had to wake)
5:00pm Dinner
6:00pm Bedtime routine - bath and bottle, shoot for BT of 6:30

I had hoped this routine would fix the EWs, but we soon realized that DS was teething and once the top two teeth came thru, he started waking later.

HTH

[kimmbba]

OK, this is how today went:

5:30 wake up/bottle
7 breakfast
8:30 nap for 1.5 hours
11 bottle
12 lunch
2 nap for 1 hour
7 in bed asleep

BT may have been a little late...but he really had a GREAT day in terms of mood, etc.  Best naps he's had this week too.  We'll see if 2.5 hours of naps gives me even more NW than I already have, or if it helps??!!

[jackman]

This is great progress Kimmba!!! What do you think was different today?

XF for a good night.

[huntersmummyinoz]

m@rking, potty training atm so will be back tonight

[kimmbba]

OK...we had one NW for food at 3am, and then up and wide awake at 5:30

I wonder if it's not really and EW with him??  It's early for me, and most people, but he's always been a 6-6:30 waker since he was a baby. I'm going to try to keep the same schedule today, or even push the AM nap 15 min. and still to bed around 7 and see what happens.  I AM terrified that I'll be soon up at 4:30 after daylight savings!!!!!  I'll keep working.  I think he's not OT at least.  He also really wants to go to bed, gets cranky etc. at about 5:30 every night.  If you distract, and get his mind on something else then he can hold out for a bath for another 30-45 min.

Hubby leaves tomorrow!  Hopefully one NW and up at 5:30 is ALL I have to deal with

[Huds Mom]

Hi Kim, I ehcho Jackman's comments as my LO is very similar to hers and she helped me manage my EW and NW's which are pretty minimal now. Mine wakes at 5:30am everyday (so you may not want any suggestions from me!) but i dont give him a bottle until 7am, then breakfast at 8:30am - this helps pass the time so I can keep him awake until 9:30am for his nap. I usually get about 1.5hrs.

He is usually in bed by 6:30pm so a 5:30am wake up isnt technically an EW although way too early for me so we are trying to push this out without much success so i may just wait till he can stay up for longer periods.

The last few nights he has been in bed at 7pm and has not slept well and is still up at the same time so maybe try an earlier bedtime as i find a 13hr day is really all he can handle right now.

Goodluck.

[jackman]

Hi Kimmba
I think you have the right idea to push that first A time by 15min. Would you be willing to try an earlier BT tonight just to see if maybe it helps the EW? 4hrs is a long A time after an hour nap. My lo if I get him to bed early after a short nap and try to keep to 12hr day, he actually STTN without an EW. I'm just trying to figure out the magical total DT sleep.

Yesterday we had a 40min pm nap and I was shooting for bed at 6pm, but was about 15min too late and we had 1NW and an EW at 5am. DS fell back to sleep at 6 and then woke at 7am to start his day. What do you do when your lo has an EW?

Good luck today.

[kimmbba]

I only was pushing BT a little later because he routinely goes to bed at 6:30 and still up at 5:30.  I thought maybe if he went to bed a little later??  He's trying to put himself to sleep on the floor with a sweatshirt right now...so I guess I'll start his first nap at 8:45

[kimmbba]

Jackman, do you think the DT sleep is good since we're getting only the one NW/NF??  Or is the DT sleep also related to the EW?

[jackman]

Your lo is younger than mine, so I really think he still needs a good amount of DT sleep (anywhere between 2.5-3hrs). I truly think your DS is still OT based on some of your posts on the BC about the short naps and the very long A times. I know when my DS was severely OT, he would have marathon A times. The best thing to do is let your lo nap for as long as he can for a week to catch up since he has EWs. Don't cap any naps until you get a predictable routine. And don't let him sleep more than 3hrs total. I know it is hard, but really try to stretch your DS to 9:30am. He'll show you sleepy signs for sure, but keep him up.

I think your EWs are a combo of things IMO. OT and DT sleep, but tackle the OT first. I know you said you were putting your DS to bed later since you were already doing a 6:30pm BT and he was waking at 5:30am, but was that with good naps like yesterday or bad naps? If that is with good naps, then I'm at a loss. I still think trying for an early BT for a few days and seeing if it helps would be a good idea, but you know your lo best.

Let me know how your first nap went today.

[kimmbba]

We had 1.5 hours for first nap, and we're about to go for second nap...I'll try the early BT, it doesn't hurt that's for sure!!

[jackman]

That's great!! Did you put Ethan down at 8:45am like you mentioned earlier? Hopefully second nap goes as well as yesterday's.