Support for dropping the nap-part 6

[Truly Blessed]

Thank you Catherine, great to hear that's working for Lydia. I have considered it yes, but the reason I haven't gone for it is that Sam never wants to wake from his nap even after an hour. I can't imagine waking him from a 30 min nap in bed, so the only way I would feel able to achieve that is to APOP car or pushchair naps every day and that is something else I'm not wanting to do. I can't afford the fuel to be honest, and pushchair naps are hit and miss these days too  I guess because Sam is happy on a no nap day following a decent night and happier in the afternoon than when he has a short nap, my thinking is it may be better to go no nap. Of course if I do try this (again) there will be accidental late naps in the car or pushchair which I will just have to deal with and hope that keeping BT the same will work.

I honestly don't know. Maybe I will cap to 45 mins to start with and see if it makes a difference or leave his nap at hour like Barbara suggested until the training is over.

Thanks Ladies.x.x

[cath~]

You might find he wakes OK at 45 mins.. I think L is in lighter sleep at that point than at 1hr (based on the odd occasion when we've been out and about and have let her have longer morning car nap to last til BT).

[Truly Blessed]

You might find he wakes OK at 45 mins.

Actually you're right Hun, at the end of a sleep cycle can often be a more restorative nap.

I HAVE A HAPPY UPDATE!!! lol.........

Tonight I did bed time like clockwork. Sam had no nap day number 2, he woke at 6.30 this morning and my plan was to keep his day to 12 hours absolute maximum. I sat him down with his full attention and laid the BT plan out for him. TV until the big hand on the clock points here (this is a new trick which he loves) 1 story on the sofa with Mammy. Last wee and tooth brushing. Talk about our day in bed. Lights off and 1 lullaby, then Mammy will kiss you goodnight and that is when you stay in bed and sleep.

I did the above and when I left him at 6pm I shut the door which I have been leaving open at his request for 3 months..ish. As I walked out he started to say "But Mammy me not tired , this and that etc and I said "It is bed time now, night night" in a firm voice. I sat on my bed and waited for the door to open. He was doing a protest cry in his room, and after 2 minutes it stopped, the door didn't open and it all went quiet...he went to sleep, just like that  .

Then I danced around the bedroom (ours obviously LOL, not his that would just be silly)

My light bulb moment was spot on. The line had become completely blurred because I wasn't ruling with a strong hand. How could he know what he was expected to do if I didn't  He was picking up on my lack of confidence and my dread at BT.

I'm not saying that it will be like this every night, but OMG is it encouraging. I know my little boy after all hurrah! 

I still believe UT has been at play for some BT's and although I am unsure I am working on going no nap unless Sam takes one for himself IYKWIM  I will allow 30 mins maximum for accidental naps. He sailed through today after an 11 hour 45 night last night and obviously no nap ruled out UT at BT.

The fact that he has never refused a nap kinda screams he's not ready. But a 1 hour nap has been getting us a 10 hour night lately. If we don't get any BT resistance any more and his nights remain a solid 12 hours I think we will crack it but only time will tell.

Vicki.x.

[cath~]

Yay! Great news!

[*Ali*]

It's such a difficult balancing act isn't it ladies.
We are still plodding along with mostly no nap days and a few 30min naps in the car or on the sofa. I don't do car journeys for the purpose of a nap on a regular basis but he often falls asleep at the weekend when we go out or sometimes on the sofa watching TV late in the day. After a 45min nap at 4.15 the other day he still went to bed less than 3.5hrs later and slept nearly 11hrs. I think he would get OT n all no nap days but 2-3 CNs a week seem to he working. The other week I accidentally let him go 8 days without a na and he started waking earlier and earlier but a few catch up naps and EBTs (6pm) and he is back to 7am WUs. We had dinner out tonight as DH got off work early and he went to bed at 8 so I have set his sun for 7.45 instead of 7 in hope we get a lie in. I feel the sun has woken him (and therefore Colby and me) for the last 2 days. Worth a try anyway. He napped in the car at 2.30 for half an hour anyway.

[barbaraz78]

Vicki, I'm happy for the very good progress! You and Sam did a GREAT job!

[Truly Blessed]

Thank you Ladies,

Ali this would be ideal:

We are still plodding along with mostly no nap days and a few 30min naps in the car or on the sofa.

It's what i was initially aiming for, but you're so right it is a fine balance.

After a 45min nap at 4.15 the other day he still went to bed less than 3.5hrs later and slept nearly 11hrs.

Wow! super.My IRL friend's Lo started to refuse naps sometimes at Sam's age and so she just let him lie down on the sofa when he wanted to in the afternoon or car nap uncapped. He would have a nap at 5pm for an hour and still go down at 8pm for BT. Oh how I wish.x.

[Mama_Mia]

Can these NW be developmental?

That is a huge possibility, he has just started talking recently.

Thanks for the hugs Catherine. He was up for 4 hours last night. So I let him sleep until 8:40 this morning which created another no-nap day so I have a feeling he will be up again tonight.

Great news Vicki! Glad you had an encouraging night.

The hardest part here is that M is still so young that he wont lie on the couch on no nap days. I have to either take him for a ride or try to keep him inside the house for awhile to keep him from tiring too quickly. I am starting to think his long NW's are UT tho. So the next no nap day I am going to aim for an 11 hour day, I have been doing 10.5.

[roseola]

Great news Vicki!

[confusedmummy]

That's a great result Vicki, I hope it continues. Charlie is now in major OT state, after this, which will be fourth no nap day. We are having NWs (although not all long) and his WU is now in the 5-6 am region and most BTs closer to 7pm rather than 6.30 like before. This means 13hr + days with no naps, which is what he was doing with an hour nap.

The problem is the more no nap days the more he refuses a nap, even though he will eventually sleep, usually quite soon after I get him down, but he just won't go longer than an hour anymore so they are not CU naps. Then his BT gets later but WU remains the same, so he ends up with less sleep. I'm not sure where to go now. Do I try no nap with earlier BT? Or earlier nap with still an early BT? Any ideas guys? X

[*Becky*]

what length day are you aiming for? At the start of no nap we were aiming for 11.5 hours MAX....
if he does a CU nap does he need a later BT?? I know it sounds silly but I kept BT at the same time for DS regardless of whether he had a 35 min CU nap or not. We did not make BT later.
If he is up around 6am I would aim for a no nap day and asleep by 5.30pm.
When you do CU naps how long do you let him have? I do think for many lo's at some point in the 1-0 the longer naps really do more harm than good and a short nap with a similar BT helps.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Confusedmummy, I'm so sorry Charlie isn't doing so well. I am hoping some of the Ladies with LO's who have BTDT can chip in with the best way forward. The first time that I pushed Sam through no nap something similar happened, as his BT got later and his WU stayed the same until he ended up having 11 hours sleep after a 13 hour day.

What do you want to do moving forward  do you still want to try and schedule a no nap routine because of nursery or do you just want to try and get him caught up now 

With the current situation IIW Sam. I would get Charlie down for a nap asap. I suspect he will be really OT and may nap as early as 4/4.5 hours after WU (I say this because Sam will when really OT) so I'd get him down whichever way you can.

If I allow Sam a long nap these days, he doesn't actually CU as his night will be shorter, but he does however seem to feel better with the sleep spread over the day, so just bear that in mind Sweetie, although there's ever chance Charlie will react differently. Then after his nap I would give a decent A time to avoid short term UT to leading to OT at BT, but because his nap has been earlier in the day it should be sooner and his day should be shorter, meaning if he still wakes early he will hopefully have had a better length night and the drip drip of CU will hopefully take a hold.

If you want to push through with no nap, then I can only suggest a nice long WD and APOP to sleep if necessary. I don't know if you're feeling really stressed at BT Sweetheart, I should imagine you are with being so tired and heavily pregnant, so maybe you could learn something from my mistakes  keep calm and have a plan, so that Charlie can't pick up of any stress. Much easier said than done I know.

I am expecting more eyes on this Sweetie, so hang in there and take care of yourself.

Love Vicki.x.

[Truly Blessed]

Becky posted at the same time  but totally on the same page.

At the start of no nap we were aiming for 11.5 hours MAX....

This ^ is what we are doing and yesterday it worked very well. However last time Sam was going down after 10.5 hours, but this turned out to be unsustainable and only appropriate for the odd no nap day.

x.

[confusedmummy]

Thanks Becky, his no nap days are used to be 12hrs as he would not sleep longer than 12hrs, so his mornings would get earlier, but now he is waking so early his days are more like 13.5hrs which I know is too long, but its the EWs making it difficult. Also the three days at nursery he is not picked up till 5 so by the time we get home and with WD routine his BT is harder to get before 6.

His CU naps are usually between 40mins and 1hr but I do aim for longer, he just won't sleep. But maybe I should try a shorter nap with EBT as with an hour nap, no matter how early I put him down, he ends up asleep later around 7.30 or 8pm, but with this he will still wake early.

The last 2 morning he has been awake at 5.20am and in bed about 6.50pm, this morning after same BT he had a fairly long NW at 12 for about 40mins then woke this morning about 6.15, he will not be having a nap so what time do you think I should do BT? He is at nursery but I may be able to pick him up a little earlier than 5. X

[*Ali*]

I would go for early short (30-45 mins) nap and similar BT. We try for 6.30 or 7 on a no nap day and 7 on a nap day as ling as the nap was before 2pm. It the nap is later then I often have to push BT to 7.30 or 8 but he will do less A time after a late nap since he is more tired from a long first A. I was surprised just how quickly he would go down after a late nap when I actually started watching him instead of guessing based on a magic A time I thought he would need. I guess it's like me falling asleep on the sofa at 8pm and waking up after half an hour. I wouldn't need hours and hours before BT, I could probably just go and get ready for bed and have a hot drink and then go back to sleep at BT. It seems to work like that for cadan anyway.