7.5 mo long NW

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I do not know I am confused. pm nap today 28 min, I came in the room she was rolling and playing with paci, in very good mood and now she is playing on the floor  . Lately she had one short and one long nap but last few days am nap stayed short (56 min) and pm nap is getting shorter and shorter  (from 1.45 hr, 1.09 hr, 52 min, 28 min) I need to say that last few nights she slept 11.5-12 hr what was miracle. Is it possible that length of night sleep influenced on naps? Today we will go again around 6 pm in bed.

[becj86]

Length of night could be changing nap requirements. Could overstimulation be an issue with the shorter naps?

I think pushing your AM A time is worth a shot. We can always dial it back again if its too much. I have recently seen a LO pushed too far too fast even when mum was being really cautious because his naps were OT not UT, so I'm a bit wary of suggesting it in cases like yours but I think on balance it's more likely she's just needing a longer AM A time.

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I was also thinking about OS but I am not sure. Her mornings always look the same: WU, feeding, changing, cuddling with daddy  (before he goes to work), and then floor (if she is in the mood) - there she is rolling over or plays with toys (I turned off all music, electric toys, they gather dust in the corner   ) - only plastic cups, balls, soft toys, wires  , some for chewing. Another variation is - she sits in tatamia watching me (vacuuming  , or preparing her food, we are talking all the time) or she has there some paper cups, muffin cups, whisk  and she is exploring. We play pekaboo, or on the floor, cuddle...I am not sure what could be OS here? Do you see it? I tried to limit the number of toys but she gets bored very fast so that is not solution even though she does have her favorites (I listed). Before sleep I put her in Baby Bjorn we walk approx 10 min, I put her in the crib where she is holding me for the hand and falls a sleep - sometimes in few minutes sometimes longer. Of course that for pm nap and BT it is getting longer and at evening I walk longer. Time before pm nap - since it was bad weather lately we stayed at home (or run to local store in carrier) and her A time looks similar like in the morning. Yesterday we went to grocery shopping by car (it was fast and short); she had still time to play at home and good WD. If it is good weather we go for a walk (still the phase of refusing stroller) but how days are getting longer and weather nicer I do plan to spend much more time outside.

Ok now an update - we are already awake over 1.5 hr  . What did I say - I am afraid to say loudly anything about the improvement of NW  . Her BT was 6.10 pm, regular resettling (2x) approx 2 hr after BT, ate 9.40 pm, woke up 00.28 am - I tried to resettle, she was trying to sleep but did not work. After half an hour I decided to feed (she was really hungry, I would say consequence of yesterday's snacking), then rocking, put her in the crib. Ten minutes was silence, she was on tummy and then suddenly ---- tadammmm turtle was back  . That face that worth million dollars - when she does push ups and looks at me. She tried to enter into my bed, and fun started... Yes this is cot party with rolling, trying to crawl and babbling - I think she will wake up neighbors. She is so cute and funny. I know it will not be funny in the morning  .

OK after writing the novel  I will increase A time for 10 or 15 minutes? What do you think? I think there is nothing to loose we won't sleep so and so (UT or OT  ) and it will help us to figure it out (I am not going to complain but we entered in the 5th month of NW  . I am just wondering will she ever need regular sleep in her life  .

Thank you very much Bec 

[tweetie]

Just to add that she fell a sleep after being awake 2.24 hr and WU 6.27 am. I assume that today her first nap will be long one (as it always was after NW) but we will see.
I will see will it be possible to extend her morning A time today.

[becj86]

Yep, sounds like some A increase is in order. So lovely you're taking the long wakings in good humour, they can be aggravating.

TBH, I often think of DS sleep issues as him saying he will sleep as a teen :p FWIW, once I had a good routine for him, he did sleep well at night til he started talking a lot, now he wakes to try out his new words... His routine was not a typical one for his age though, so certainly worth tweaking to see if we can find something that works for her.

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Well it is aggravating  but after 20 minutes saying her phrase for sleeping or rocking or putting her in my bed I decide to make coffee and accept that - sometimes easier sometimes harder  , and here I am again from 4 am. I am not going to say that my tendon inflammation on the right hand  worsen from lots of rocking last ten days. Now in addition to coffee the ice pack became my friend.

Yesterday EASY
WU 6.24 am
A 3.41 hr (after one circle I just put her in bed and she slept)
S 1.44 hr
A 3.34 hr
S 40 min (I cut)
A 3.11 hr
BT 7.13 pm
BF 11.59 pm, 3.58 am

awake already 1.5 hr  .

I noticed that after am nap she is getting tired around 2.45 hr and I was wondering would it worth to try to put her to sleep then? I mean not now I know  but maybe after I extending first A time? Otherwise when I put her around 3 or 3.5 hr (depending on the nap) she seems hyper. Similar is for BT but for BT I can not see cues or when I see them she still can not fall a sleep without APOP last ten days.

[tweetie]

I am back again, trying to extend first A time.  It took us few days and now we have again NW  . No signs of discomfort, no winds, she was chatting for 2 hours. I am fighting with the second and the third A time, procedure is always the same, days are always the same but she can not fall a sleep at similar A times. And she is very sleepy when I cut pm nap but there is no way she would fall a sleep earlier. Definitely I am doing something wrong but I can not force her to fall a sleep and so and so last two weeks we are on APOP for these two naps. Morning nap goes easy. We went backwards with sleep training - now we are again on patting and shaking (not right word but I hope YKWIM) in the crib  . Do you have any suggestion please?

FRI
WU 6.04 am
A 3.40 hr
S 1.10 hr
A 3.04 hr
S 1.15 hr
A 3.45 hr 
BT 6.50 pm; BF 10.45 pm, 3.41 am

SAT
WU 7.00 am
A 3.48 hr
S 1.20 hr
A 3.18 hr
S 35 min (I cut)
A 3.11 hr
BT 7.12 pm, BF 10.53 pm, 2.20 am, awake from 5.56 am
SUN
WU 6.21 am (she was awake from 5.56 but was quite and I tried to put her back to sleep so I cut morning A time and she fell a sleep fast)
A  3.33 hr
S 1.16 hr
A 3.10 hr
S 1.22 hr
A 3.24 hr
BT 7.07 pm, BF 10.41, 2.50 am-4.42 am - awake 1.52 hr and WU 7 am

[becj86]

Chatting for 2hr tends to be an indication of being undertired, or having not enough a time first up in the morning. I wonder if you increase just the first a time by 10mins and see if that gives you a longer first nap? Remind me how old she is again?

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Sorry for the late replay - last few days were stressful... In addition I lost my iphone on the parking lot in the front of the mall. I realized when I came home  . Somebody found it and returned it - I was so happy  . There are still good people around   

DD is 8months and 12 days old. I was working on increasing the first A time to 3.45 hr (last ten days). Last three nights she slept with two wakings for feeding. Last three days her naps increased and she looked pretty tired especially during the last A before BT but in very good mood. Am naps were 1.44-2 hr, pm 30-50 min (some I cut some she woke up). In addition she would go to bed after 2.5 - 3 hr (long WD, lots of carrying and then standard procedure in the crib   ) what did not happen since she was much younger. What it is happening is EW - 6.20 am and 2 & 3 A time are not consistent.

I was happy hoping that finally I will look less like a zombie BUT (there is always but  ) this night she is awake from 00.30 - already 4 hr with some trials of sleeping, chatting, rolling, fussing but she slept maybe 40 min in total in these 4 hr. Still awake trying to fall a sleep now in my arms - I think she is getting there  . I can not see any sign of discomfort    Maybe OT? Maybe developmental? She can sit but she can not sit up alone and she is practicing a lot during the day and also trying to crawl. Thank you very much
I do not know what to do today - let her sleep as much as she want and not paying attention on A time?
When I ending writing she fell a sleep - God knows for how long 

[becj86]

Can you write out your easy? She won't need a long a time before bed if she's only having the shorter nap... Seems pretty reasonable from what you've written.

Are you leaving her if she's happy during these long night wakings? Tying to get her to sleep while she's not wanting to sleep can actually prolong the waking.

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Thank you Bec, again we are awake  00.30 resettled fell a sleep at 00.54 am, 2.30 awake, feed 2.56 am because she was fussing, after that she got energy and started to party. I let her in the cot, just she is trying to get into my bed  , babbling but after a while she starts fussing or crying (she does not like to be in the dark and I think she is bored)- she wants my hand or when I turn on notebook and she sees some light then she continues to have fun by herself. Now she is rolling, she is like a caterpillar and babbling God she will wake neighbours. She is fussing in between but completely focused on her "work" in the crib but also getting hyper. At the end she became nervous, flaunting with hands, crying and I need to resettle
Regarding putting her in bed I understand if I put her UT she will become OT and again it will take her forever to fall a sleep but I really do not know how to find out the right moment because I tried all different ways (short WD, long WD, medium WD) and end up always with the same...   

EASY:
Monday looked ok but the night before had long NW (Sun to Mon), then we had few great nights (Mon to Tues, Tues to Wed)  and again mess 
TUESDAY
WU 6.20
A 3.45 hr
S 1.59 hr
A 3.50 hr
S 30 min (I cut)
A 2.48 hr
BT 7.13 pm
BF 10.13 pm, 1.45 am
WEDNESDAY
WU 6.17 AM
A 3.45 hr
S 1.34 hr
A 3.25 hr
S 41 min
A 2.57 hr
BT 6.43 pm
awake 00.30, 1.16-1.55am, 2.45-4.40 am
THURSDAY
WU 7.09
A 3.27 hr (she was tired from being awake night before I did not want her to be OT)
S 1.56 hr
A 4 hr (she was hyper, could be overstimulation to be in the stroller in the park? , we came home 30 min before nap and it took her 1 hr with lots of my help)
S 30 min (I cut)
A  2.47 hr
BT 7.38 pm
awake from 00.45 -00.54 am, 2.30 am till now 4.47 am and I think soon she will fall a sleep - fall a sleep 4.51 am

[becj86]

It does sound at least partially developmental. I'm running out of ideas here

Is she getting plenty of time on the ground during her a times to master all these new skills?

[tweetie]

Thank you very much Bec for all your time. I believe, I came from general sleep issues here and as I said she does have NW since she started with the first sleep regression when she was 4 months old. Before she had just two wakings for feeding and that was that. I believe also that it is developmental just I can not believe that it is constant - tricky part is that it is not habitual so I can not do W2S. Good thing in this is that she does not cry and I do not need to entertain her except turn on notebook and at teh end help her to fall a sleep. Bed thing is that I am sleep deprived. Obviously I will need to live with that and hope she will overgrow it eventually   

Believe me or not she is most of the time on the floor - today I woke her up at 7.12 fed, changed diaper and since then she is on the floor (already 45 min). I will take her to give her solids, then return her again on the floor. Sometimes she is less (like yesterday we went outside) but in each A time at least an hour of course depending also on the mood.

[becj86]

Just throwing possibilities out there for you to think about.

Is she in your room still? Wonder if she may be waking from being disturbed by you? DS was waking quite a bit and I closed our bedroom door and he slept better once he wasn't hearing DH tossing and turning.

Temperature - hot or cold?

[tweetie]

Unfortunately yes and there is no way for other solution till we move and that is still waiting. I know what are you talking about. Last two months my DH sleeps in the living room (he is snoring, turning in the bed loudly and then she did not sleep...). As far as I know I do not make noise during the night and now when I lay down I am dead and wake up in the same position  but you never know.

I was also thinking about the temperature so I do not put her in the sleeping bags - I have a feeling she feels hot in them. I would not say it is cold either... Thank you for giving ideas...
Last night neighbours had party and she was waking so I decided to put her in bed with me. She did not sleep peacefully but she slept whole night till 6 am and just one feeding around 1 am. Today she was pretty tired and am nap was 2 hr and I cut it (I assume build OT from previous nights?) and pm 40 min (I also cut) and we will see how the night will go - in the crib   
Thank you bec very much it is so nice how much you want to help and my hard nut is tricky with that sleeping