Can someone help me sort out these silly 1 hour naps?

[nevinsmama]

Hi Mamas! I have been over on General Sleep and after 7 or so pages of wonderful help and encouragement I think what we need help with right now is these silly 1 hour naps! UT right? Well I am starting to wonder! Ivy is 9 months old tomorrow, EBF, unswaddled and eats solids quite well. She has 2 teeth all the way through and no sign of more yet .

She has always been a bit of a shocking sleeper but thanks to PUPD she is doing much better in the independent sleep department. We have weaned ( except for moments of extreme stress) the PU in PUPD and settle her mostly by talking quietly to her and sometimes patting her bum. She has alovey which really seems to help, something for her busy hands to hold.

It has been a LONG time since she napped more than 1hr 15minutes. Here is what she is doing right now, give or take a bit.
A3hr45.
S1hr2
A3hr15 ( since nap was WAY less than 2 sleep cycles I cut by 30 minutes)
S27 minutes, resettle, than 30 more minutes.
A 3hr15
BT ( she has been doing pretty well with a 6:00ish BT, we were doing EBT at 5:30 but she was getting u
p at 5 and I was only doing that in the hopes she would really tack on and do 12 hrs+ to catch up. So I have put our new BT at no sooner than 6:00, unless there mis tragic OT at play. SHe has not napped more than 2 hrs in one day in quite a while.

Katherine recommended we try W2S to try to get her over that 1 hour (ish) hump and I will do that. THe 26-30 minute hump was getting increasingly popular too so today I went in a rubbed her back  at the 20 minute mark. WHen I touched the back of her neck she did a big sigh and wiggled so I ducked down and hid behind the bumpers in case she was really waking up. She slept 51 minutes total? Another UT nap in what "feels" like OT???

I suspected that our first nap was really OT and pulled her all the way back to 3hrs for a couple days, to see if she would catch up, then 3hr15, 3hr30, and now here we are at 3hr45. Each time she napped from 58 minutes to 1hr15.

So, any thoughts Mamas? Oh and she is trying very hard to crawl, but hasn't gotten there yet! THanks so much for taking the time to help me sort this girl out!

[j.and.e]

mine was same at 9mo, two short naps, usually about 1hr in the am, and sometimes only 20min in the pm, but ot all the time and lots of NWs. Occasionaly we wud get a 2hr nap in the am, but never after any predictable a time. What worked for us was doing an early and short am nap, then shooting for one long nap after lunch, so wu 5.30am, nap 9-9.45 (then cut to 30min), then nap2 1pm-3pm. My ds needed quite long a times, and i had to push am nap to 9 to discourage the pre 6am start. You may find that you need to experiment, but cutting nap 1 should make her tired enuf for a long nap2. I think a usual routine would be wu 7am, nap 10-10.45 nap2 1-3pm bt 7pm, but sleep needs and a times are v individual at this age. Hth xx

[nevinsmama]

Thanks J.and.e for responding. Wow, I am just not sure if I am brave enough to cut our morning nap! It may be pitiful but it is still the best of the two. But if it is what needs to be done than OK! Do you think I dare push to 4 hours 1st A to see if that helps? Or do you think I am heading the wrong way. I was surprised how many 9 month old are still closer to 3 hrs for their 1st A but I did already try that. 1hr. Sigh. Just trying to get an idea of where we are going wrong!

[nevinsmama]

Did W2S at 50 minutes. OVerdid it a little bit and she squawked some and raised her head. I put my hand on her back and patted a bit. Got another 20 minutes. Geesh. SHould I go to 4hrA tomorrow to try? And maybe try W2S again? She yawned a leaned her head over on her high chair about 2.5 hours in. This makes me wonder if I should try something silly like 2hr50 but that just seems all wrong....don't know! We are out the rest of the day so wish us luck for tonight!!! Thanks for any thoughts!

[Smurfette]

Hi there

I just skimmed over your post, but I think your LO is OT. 3hr 45 mins is really long A time. Most babies-if they wake at 7 am, need to be back asleep around 9am-so that's just 2 hours.

At her age, I wouldn't go by A times as much as I would go by set naps so that her body gets used to some consistency. Do you know what her sleepy cues are?

Most babies nap well at 9 and 1pm as there are some biological changes that the body goes through around those times that indicate the body is ready to nap.
I would try that for about a week straight (maybe even longer because naps take a long time to fix) to see if that helps.

[nevinsmama]

Thanks so much Smurfette! It "feels' OT. As I said above, I have pulled back to 3 hrs ( which seemed reasonable at 9 months) and got the same thing. But, she may just be so incredibly OT that this is not cutting it. Sleepy cues?  Well, not too many, today was unusual with her leaning on her high chair and yawning and of course we were out and she had a CN in the carrier. She has been awake 4 hours since then!!! Hoping she would nurse to sleep but then she pooped! LOvely! I am rambling but my point is I will just watch her like a hawk tomorrow and just lay her down at the first sign, is that what you are suggesting?
What about 2nd nap? Same thing? Is the low A's just to cut the OT out and then move out again? She has been up at 5:15 or so the last couple days but she is usually out around 6. Let me know if I am understanding you correctly! Thanks so much!

[j.and.e]

:-) i can only say what worked for us in the same position. My ds was ot too, but two short naps seemed worse than one short and one long. The trick to cutting the am nap is to offer it early and then do the big nap after not too long, so babe can do a nice long nap! Up to you thou, if your dd hates to be woken then some mums do a long am nap after 4hrs and a short pm cn. This wasnt good for us as i had to fit sleeps in with ds1, ofcourse there may be something else going on with the short naps (developmental etc.). If you make any changes to her schedule i'd stick with it for 2wks before changing up again thou xx

[Smurfette]

Maryn
I don't really believe in A times per se. I believe in watching your child very closely for the very subtle sleepy cues and I really believe in set naps because there is research that says that children are ready to nap at certain points in the day and that gives the most restorative naps.

However 10 months is notorious for having sleep regressions, but I still believe in sticking with a consistent routine, but being flexible and NOT pushing a baby if they are tired and need sleep. I really, really believe in super early bedtimes too.

But, naps are stubborn creatures and once they are 'broken' for lack of a better word, they take awhile to fix as oppose to night sleep which can be fixed relatively quickly.

From everythign you are saying, your DD is not just tired, but OT. 3 hours is still too long for her to be going, especially when OT.

This is what I would do...and it's just my 2 cents so take it or leave it.

If she wakes earlier than 6am and you can't get her back to sleep then aim for a nap around 8:15-8:30. If she wakes later in the morning, then nap at 9am

2nd nap-depends on time and quality of first nap but if the first nap sucked and was under an hour then I would start nap #2 around 12:15-12:30. If the morning nap was decent and she's looking good, then I would try to stretch it to around 12:45 but no later than 1pm.

Then depending on the quality and length of both naps,I would do bedtime no later than 3.5 hours from wake up of the pm nap. I would actually err on the side of caution and do bedtime even earlier actually. But really watch her for cues and get her to bed pronto if you see anything-eye rubs, yawns, staring into space, zoning out or worse-signs of OT-hyper, silly, buzzed or super cranky.

Hope that helps.

[nevinsmama]

Hi Smurfette,

Had a whole bunch of rambling here but saw you had posted and I think this is what I am comfortable doing. I just can't see cutting her naps yet. She is BARELY 9 months ( she was also 3 weeks early)

THinking I will just make myself stop looking at the clock and watch her like a hawk tomorrow. 

Gulp, do I need to suck it up and get used to 5:30 PM BT again?

Thanks for taking the time to help me. I am going to stick to this plan and will see what we get, I will be back tomorrow and will surely let you know how it goes.

[Smurfette]

Ok, good luck-but remember-naps take time!! Like 3 weeks time. Be patient and yes keep bedtime super early if she needs it. Just think of how much time to yourself it will give you.
But seriously don't be scared of early bedtimes-they are awesome and when she's not OT, she will wake later, nap longer and bedtime will come back down again.
But be consistent, be watchful of cues, and respect her need for sleep.

[nevinsmama]

Got it, just want the sweet girl to get some rest! Thanks so much!

[nevinsmama]

OUt at 6:40. Up at 4:50. Tried all manner of AP but no go. Probably got her too worked up trying to resettle in the crib before nursing her, I know after all that PUPD that this is a slippery slope but I think she she just needs SLEEP right now. She is giddy. Giving her breakfast and then back to bed.

[Smurfette]

How long of an A time did she have from the last nap wake up until bed last night?

[nevinsmama]

Last night was choppy and short. We were out yesterday and she wound up having a 4hour A from the end of her 30 minute carrier nap until she was asleep. THis morning she went for a nap after just 2hrs 10 minutes. She was zoning out and as I took her from the pack ( 1st part of our WD) she yawned. She slept 1hr13 minutes. She has been up 2 hrs now and I am just watching her. Our WD usually takes half an hour, so think I had better be ready to spring into action. SHe is getting a bit grizzly. DOn't see any way to get around having 3 naps today, but we will see...

[nevinsmama]

And she's up again. Went to sleep after 2hr35. Slept exactly an hour. She is up at 11:51. Just going to keep watching and listening and see how we go. One question, when she naps again in a bit, should I let her sleep or make it a CN and make BT as early as possible. I mean even a 5:30 BT is going to make for a 12.5 hour day.. what do you think? Thanks so much..