Stunted growth due to cutting NF?

[ideazec]

Dear all,

I would like to seek some advise please.

I've read both of Tracy's books (BW solves.. And secrets of...).

From what I gather, correct me if I'm wrong.. Is that we should tank up baby during daytime and cut out NF.

I've cut out NF for my bb since he was around 10 weeks till he's now coming to 5 mths.
Reason is being that when he wakes at 3am, we pop a pacifier and he can sleep till morning 6.30am-7am. He always wakes around 3 something since birth!

But my baby has dropped in his height percentile and is pretty short as compared to his birth height, though his weight gain however, is good.

Tonight he woke again at 3.30am and was unwilling to go down, I fed him to test if he's really hungry. He guzzled down 140ml of feed and soon went to sleep with a little fussing.

My questions are:-

1) Is it right to cut out NF? Could it have stunted his height growth?

2) should I give him the NF back and undo all the progress on cutting out NF ?

Can anyone please advise me? I'm torn ...

[ideazec]

I was very happy that we've managed to cut out NF but his slow height growth is creating doubts in me. I'm wondering if he needs more feed to grow.

Also, due to us popping the paci when he wakes at night... He's addicted to paci now.

So we are not entirely sure if it's hunger or paci issue.

My thoughts are that if he can be satisfied with a paci, should mean he isn't truly hungry right?

Please share your thoughts... I would really appreciate it.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I agree that if the paci is enought for him to sleep until morning he is not hungry. I think a lot of babies would guzzle a 3 am bottle regardless and perhaps just be less hungry on wake up. He might wake hungry during a growth spurt though or wake because of teeth or development too...there are just so many variables!

[Katet]

Height at birth & height at 2yo really have little in common. My DS2 was born very tall & still at 9yo is very tall, but a friend had a tall baby at the same time, by the time they were both walking DS2 was taller & now DS2 is still much taller. From about 6mo both boys have kept fairly consistent in their growth along the chart. My friend brought it up with her GP about how her DS had dropped from top of the charts to just above 50% on the charts in the first year & the GP said "that's genetics for you" 

The fact he is putting on weight is the main thing & also height growth tends to go in spurts, so in a month's time his height might have changed quite a lot.

The fact he goes 3+ hours from waking at 3am says he's not looking for a feed.

[ideazec]

I agree that if the paci is enought for him to sleep until morning he is not hungry. I think a lot of babies would guzzle a 3 am bottle regardless and perhaps just be less hungry on wake up. He might wake hungry during a growth spurt though or wake because of teeth or development too...there are just so many variables!

Thanks for your reply! That's what I thought, however it's mainly the slow growth in height that's causing me to worry if I'm depriving him of his needed nutrients to grow.

His night wakes used to be only at 3ish. Now it's irregular like he falls asleep at 8ish .. Sometimes 9ish... He would wake at 10ish... 2 or 3 ish... And 6ish. This has gone on for weeks.

I have no idea if its a sleep prop association or hunger (irregular wakings).

Any guides would be great..

Confused mummy.

[ideazec]

Height at birth & height at 2yo really have little in common. My DS2 was born very tall & still at 9yo is very tall, but a friend had a tall baby at the same time, by the time they were both walking DS2 was taller & now DS2 is still much taller. From about 6mo both boys have kept fairly consistent in their growth along the chart. My friend brought it up with her GP about how her DS had dropped from top of the charts to just above 50% on the charts in the first year & the GP said "that's genetics for you" 

The fact he is putting on weight is the main thing & also height growth tends to go in spurts, so in a month's time his height might have changed quite a lot.

The fact he goes 3+ hours from waking at 3am says he's not looking for a feed.

That's what the PD said.. "Genetics". However, both me and my hubs are not short. So it really didn't seem to make sense to us then.

I googled about height stunted growth and it pointed to malnutrition, that's what got me worried.

As I read the forums here, some mommies said that in Tracy's book.. No where stated that we are supposed to cut out NF! And that's its normal to feed the baby once or twice at night.

So what exactly is Tracy's guide? Am I misinterpreting the book?

Yes my baby can have the last dream feed at 11 and be satisfied with a pacifier when he wakes up at night. He will last till morning 7am.

So did you mean this is a clear indicator that he doesn't need he feed?

[Katet]

That's what the PD said.. "Genetics". However, both me and my hubs are not short. So it really didn't seem to make sense to us then.

I googled about height stunted growth and it pointed to malnutrition, that's what got me worried.

Honestly if he is putting on weight, he can't be malnourished & if he was 5yo & he hadn't grown for a year then yes I'd say you have something to worry about, but at 5mo, I think you might just be worrying a little too much about nothing.  I'd have to say if it makes you feel better give him the night feed, but I very much doubt a baby who is gaining weight will be malnourished & have stunted growth, they don't grow in a linear or even fashion (even at 11yo) they have growth spurts where it feels like they grew an inch overnight & then periods where you think "gee you've got chubby, must be getting ready to grow again"

If you are really worried I'd talk to the Dr, but honestly I do think (from experience with my 2) that if they are hungry a pacifier will only tied them over for 20-40mins, if it is 3-4 hours then they really are coping with the amount of food they are getting in 24hours.


OK I just went & looked at both my boys "health books" DS2 was more consistent but this is DS1 (weight was always up at 90%) These are rounded to the closest line
Birth 97% for height
3mo 75% for height
5mo 60% for height (not yet rolling)
9mo 75% for height
10mo 50% for height (not yet crawling)
11mo 75% for height
14mo 50% for height (not yet walking)
18mo 75% for height
2.5yo 75% for height
5yo 90% for height
8yo 90% for height
10yo 97% for height
11yo 97%for height.

So basically it took DS1 until 10yo to be back at the same spot on the chart as he was born at & almost before every movement milestone he got "chubby" & short by comparison to his average.

Even DS2 who is tall dipped between off the chart (he was born at 58.5cm/23inches) at birth down to 90% here & there.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Tbh I have not read the books in a very long time and have passed mine along so cannot read up on that. I agree with Kate though, mine always have the chubby/short vs tall/lean stages. DD3 dropped her height ratio but just grew so it is probably back up. You would be due a gs at about 6 months as well so he may pop up again then. To me stunted growth would mean more drastic of a drop.

[ideazec]

That's what the PD said.. "Genetics". However, both me and my hubs are not short. So it really didn't seem to make sense to us then.

I googled about height stunted growth and it pointed to malnutrition, that's what got me worried.

Honestly if he is putting on weight, he can't be malnourished & if he was 5yo & he hadn't grown for a year then yes I'd say you have something to worry about, but at 5mo, I think you might just be worrying a little too much about nothing.  I'd have to say if it makes you feel better give him the night feed, but I very much doubt a baby who is gaining weight will be malnourished & have stunted growth, they don't grow in a linear or even fashion (even at 11yo) they have growth spurts where it feels like they grew an inch overnight & then periods where you think "gee you've got chubby, must be getting ready to grow again"

If you are really worried I'd talk to the Dr, but honestly I do think (from experience with my 2) that if they are hungry a pacifier will only tied them over for 20-40mins, if it is 3-4 hours then they really are coping with the amount of food they are getting in 24hours.


OK I just went & looked at both my boys "health books" DS2 was more consistent but this is DS1 (weight was always up at 90%) These are rounded to the closest line
Birth 97% for height
3mo 75% for height
5mo 60% for height (not yet rolling)
9mo 75% for height
10mo 50% for height (not yet crawling)
11mo 75% for height
14mo 50% for height (not yet walking)
18mo 75% for height
2.5yo 75% for height
5yo 90% for height
8yo 90% for height
10yo 97% for height
11yo 97%for height.

So basically it took DS1 until 10yo to be back at the same spot on the chart as he was born at & almost before every movement milestone he got "chubby" & short by comparison to his average.

Even DS2 who is tall dipped between off the chart (he was born at 58.5cm/23inches) at birth down to 90% here & there.

Hi Kate!

Thank you so much for such insightful information.
It's so interesting that the kiddo would "slow down" in height before learning a new movement skill.

Do you mean that when you notice your kids looking chubby, shortly after they would have a height growth spurt?

I always thought its my eyes playing tricks when overnight baby seems to have packed up pounds at his cheeks like a chipmunk.

I'll grab his health book and post his stats in a bit.

 

[ideazec]

Tbh I have not read the books in a very long time and have passed mine along so cannot read up on that. I agree with Kate though, mine always have the chubby/short vs tall/lean stages. DD3 dropped her height ratio but just grew so it is probably back up. You would be due a gs at about 6 months as well so he may pop up again then. To me stunted growth would mean more drastic of a drop.

Hi Heidi,

Thanks a lot for sharing.

When your kiddos went through a GS, was it so plain easy to see that a GS is going on?
I went pass mth 3 without noticing anything different, which a GS was supposedly going to happen.

I think my baby's height dropped 2 bars. Let me grab the health book and double check on that.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I was bf so was easy to tell as there was an uptick in feeds when they needed to boost my supply. As they gotnolder gs were marked by a voracious appetite and sometimes extra sleep. After 1 year old they seem to hit at birthdays and half birthdays for us. Even ky older DD's look noticeably chubby up to a height spurt.

[ideazec]

I was bf so was easy to tell as there was an uptick in feeds when they needed to boost my supply. As they gotnolder gs were marked by a voracious appetite and sometimes extra sleep. After 1 year old they seem to hit at birthdays and half birthdays for us. Even ky older DD's look noticeably chubby up to a height spurt.

Do you give your kiddos water, besides bm? My mil does give some water and he sometimes guzzles it down.
Would the intake of water mask the GS?

I'm a first time mom so I'm really lacking knowledge in all these.

[ideazec]

Here's my boy's growth chart.

Height:
Birth - 10%
1 mo- 75%
3 mo+ - 25%
4 mo+ - 25%

Weight:
Birth - 25%
1 mo- 50%
3 mo+ - 75%
4 mo+ - 75%

Does the drop in height look normal to you guys?

Kate:

By the way, my boy has yet flipped or crawled. So no major movement skills yet.

[michaeljacknnugg]

In the UK they go entirely by weight, height is not measured at all for at least the first couple of years of a child's Kidd. And I am assuming there is a good reason for that!

If he is gaining weight nicely then I'd think that you have nothing to worry about. The pacifier will only settle him if he's not truly hungry and just wants something to suck. If he's hungry he's a lot more likely to wake again a short while later.

If he's sleeping well at night, I say enjoy it! There will be plenty of times when he won't sleep well, so get all the sleep you can while you have the chance. He will wake you if he needs you!

Posted with you - his weight gain looks fantastic.

[ideazec]

In the UK they go entirely by weight, height is not measured at all for at least the first couple of years of a child's Kidd. And I am assuming there is a good reason for that!

If he is gaining weight nicely then I'd think that you have nothing to worry about. The pacifier will only settle him if he's not truly hungry and just wants something to suck. If he's hungry he's a lot more likely to wake again a short while later.

If he's sleeping well at night, I say enjoy it! There will be plenty of times when he won't sleep well, so get all the sleep you can while you have the chance. He will wake you if he needs you!

Posted with you - his weight gain looks fantastic.

Hi MJ,

Thanks a lot for sharing! It's interesting that height isn't taken into account in the UK.
This is really reassuring.

Btw... We aren't having good night sleeps yet. He wakes multiple times at night.
Could be a habit and/or sleep association with paci.

I read somewhere that says: if baby wakes at night, and falls asleep immediately with a paci ... Is a clear indication that he's addicted to it.
What do you think? How true is this?


Since birth he always wakes at 3ish.. (Am hours). Now at 4 months, he can wake up 3-4 times at night.
I tried WTS but have failed several times. He always wakes up crying when I try WTS, even though I was very gentle ( rubbing his head etc to wake him up slightly)

Yes I'm really proud that with TBF, his weight gain is good.
As before, my in laws kept commenting that bm does not satisfy the baby like formula milk.