2.5yo - to nap or not to nap, that is the question?!

[labrodyk]

Perhaps the last week with the extra sleep has just topped his sleep tank back up. The last few days have been as per the below. Not sure on the wakeup as he's been quiet but he bounds out of bed at 7am so he's definitely clock watching...

We've also gone back to getting out of bed at bedtime - he doesn't even have a REASON. I ask and he just lets me take him back to bed but doesn't ask for anything. I think up to 4pm is too late for us, as is 3.30 to be honest (hence why I was capping at 3) but that puts me back at square one.

The only time he would fall asleep in 15 mins or so is if he wasn't put to bed until maybe 9 or 10pm. of course I haven't ever tried that (and have no intention to) but he would still wake at the same time - there would be no tacking on.

Sigh, lol! i'll never crack this.

Tuesday 16-June
WU: ?
OOB: 7.30?!?!?
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.15 (accidentally woke him at 3.25) but he lay in bed until 3.40
BT: 7.00, chatting for a while. Sitting up playing then wringing and crying from 7.36 asleep at 8.05

Wednesday 17-June
WU: ?
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep at 2.30 - 4.00 OOB (had wet the bed)
BT: 7.05 in bed, out of bed (and wouldn't tell me why he was out or what he wanted) at 7.20. Sitting up in bed at 7.55 but asleep by 8.20 when I checked again.

[creations]

TBH I don't think you can expect much more than this.
Even if he's not sleeping until 8pm and even if he's waking at 6am to watch the clock until 7 (and he may not be waking that early, it could be just a few mins before 7am) then he is getting a 10hr night plus 1.5 ish hour nap, 11.5hrs in 24hr is really about all you can expect.

The only way you can alter the routine is to put him to bed later but I think you said he still takes a long time to fall to sleep so there's probably no point trying to put him down later.

Personally I would not be shutting the bedroom door if it makes him cry.  I'd put him in bed and tell him firmly he must not leave his bed until the sun is up and if he needs anything he can call you.  If he calls out I would either return to the room to respond or respond verbally from outside depending on what the call/request/tone was like.  I'd be aiming to convince and reassure him that when you are needed you will be there, no matter what, rather than shutting the door which is in effect a rejection. Don't get me wrong, I have been very firm in my voice tone with DS but I wouldn't put barriers between us if he was seeking attention.  I suppose it's in my mind that whilst I DO want my child to stay in bed and go to sleep I also want him to have the confidence to call for me or come to me if he is in need - just as example if he vomited in the night he needs to know he can come out of his room to get me or call for me, I wouldn't want him to fear that as a result he would be put in the room with the door shut for him to cry yk?  Hope that makes sense.

[labrodyk]

Thanks Creations - totally understand your comments and have tried to implement. Not having much luck but we'll get there!

Our last few days have been interesting; including a NND. I was happy with tonight staying in bed (we chatted about it a lot at dinner) but it worries me losing so much sleep. He really wanted to go to bed at midday today but we pushed through...

Thursday 18-June
WU: ? Chatting from 6.40
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2-3 quiet time in bed, didn't sleep
BT: 6.30. Asleep 6.40.

Friday 19-June
WU: ? Chatting at 6.50
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.20 - 4.00
BT: 7.00, asleep 8.20 after laying quietly.

[jessmum46]

Those two days look pretty good to me . How is his mood? 

I agree with Creations about shutting the door if that's not something you usually do, you don't want fear to become a part of his bedtime.  Mine have always slept with door shut so that's normal for us, but I would always go right back in if they cry rather than waiting for longer periods.  Really glad that you seem to be having some success with him laying down quietly though, that's great

[creations]

those days do look good

[labrodyk]

Thanks ladies!!

I'm just not sure whether 1-1.5hrs at night and 30mins for nap is an issue in regards to missed sleep?

His mood isn't too bad but he's EXTREMELY hyperactive all the time, especially before bed. We have quiet books and quietly feed our cats before brushing teeth, toilet and into bed with a few songs. I can't be sure of his wake up time but in finding it hard to relax if he's not asleep.

we're also VERY quiet when it comes to sleeping - he was a reflux baby who never slept so once we got him to sleep we barely breathed. Something we still do to this day and I'm starting to get worried about it and the new baby.

[creations]

Rather than looking at amount of missed sleep (due to relaxing in his bed and falling to sleep later) I am looking instead at the amount of sleep in 24hr. I know it's an estimate due to not knowing exact WU time in the morning but I think at this age and estimate is fine and if he was waking hours and hours earlier in the morning he'd let you know about it, even the most angel kids who stick to gro-clock rules can't last hours and hours without letting someone know.  And the sleep in 24hr seems to be 11.5 ish hrs (might be some 11hr some 12hr). Which really is fine.

You won't know about the noise disturbance until it happens. We've always felt that DS can hear us sneeze but we went away for one night in a hotel and DS slept right through the loudest most piercing fire alarm I have ever heard. He did not even stir.

[labrodyk]

Thanks Creations - it's so hard not to let these things bother me. His mood is so telling of poor sleep and he's already such a spirited high needs toddler as it is. I think we're going okay at the moment.

What are your thoughts on a slightly later bedtime? It's not ideal for us family wise but I put H down at 7.20 tonight and he was asleep at 8.15. Would 7.30 be better? He still wakes at the same time in the morning but not sure whether 15mins or so extra sleep from put down at 7 vs. 7.30 is going to make an awful lot of difference? Things aren't too bad overall as you mention so I don't want to go tweaking a good thing.

Also, what do you think my next move is? Not to pre-empt it but it is it likely he'll start to cut that nap down himself or just take longer to fall asleep at nap time and sleeping beyond 4pm? All kids are different I know, just trying to get my bearings and a handle on what I should do to assist him with any transitions and difficult periods.

[creations]

Would 7.30 be better? He still wakes at the same time in the morning but not sure whether 15mins or so extra sleep from put down at 7 vs. 7.30 is going to make an awful lot of difference?

It think it's takes him a while to fall to sleep at BT anyway so I'd choose BT based on how long it usually takes him to go to sleep.

Also, what do you think my next move is?

Sorry, not sure. He may refuse nap or take longer to go to sleep at BT or start to EW...I don't think there's a way to know how it will go.  I would continue for as long as you can how things are and reassess when things become unmanageable, and FX when it becomes unmanageable he'll be ready to go without the nap.

[labrodyk]

Thank you Creations!!

He's doing a few no nap days (not consecutively) and finding he wakes SO early on those days. I can't get him down any earlier than 6.30 but he's only doing 10hrs MAX. So if he's down at 6.30 (asleep 6.40 last night) he was awake singing songs at 5.30 and then started crying as it got closer to 7.00. We are at a friends house and we slept in the same room so this could have played a part but how do we get through no nap days when the wake up is so early?! Will be a nap day today for SURE!

[creations]

but how do we get through no nap days when the wake up is so early?! Will be a nap day today for SURE!

I think you answered that yourself Follow it with a nap day.

You'll be so glad when that nap is just gone won't you - and you can back into a regular routine again.

[labrodyk]

Oh I just want it gone! Lol. His behaviour is atrocious today.

[labrodyk]

Strange days Creations...after the early wake yesterday he did a 50min(ish) nap in the car and was in bed at 7pm, asleep by 8pm HOWEVER he woke again at 5.30 crying. waited a few moments before heading into his room and he said "he didn't want a hair cut!". lol. Not sure if he had a bad dream or not but his mood and behaviour the last couple of days has been really horrible.

Today was:

WU: 5.30 crying and didn't go back to sleep.
OOB: 7.00
Nap: 2.00, asleep 2.15 - 3.55 (I went in and got him up as he was just laying there awake for a while).
BT: 7.20, asleep by 8.20pm

I'll write back in the morning if he's woken early again but I feel bad for him - something upsetting him? OT? UT? grrrrrrrr

[stuckunderhere]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one going through this. We have the exact same issue with DS (2.5 also). Our sleep schedule is now all over the place. But I have read through the replies and I think we can sort of fix it. I may have to just stick to a WU 7, nap 1-3:30, BT 8:30 (9:30-10 asleep). I hate how late he falls asleep... But when he has NNDs, he is a major grump and has absent seizures the next day. And if I cap his nap, he wakes up in a horrid mood and I have to deal with it til BT. Hmm..

[creations]

he said "he didn't want a hair cut!". lol.

Did I tell you the one about the apple core?
Kids with their sleep talk and crazy dreams hey!
This could well just be a developmental leap and nothing to do with your routine. I'd just hang in there for a bit and see if it passes.  His recent bad mood could well be developmental too.