LO has to scream himself to sleep

[trimbler]

Hugs it's hard when you 're running on empty, isn't it? well done for last night, sounds a sensible plan, were the wakings fairly short, then? Did you decide to try W2S in the end? What did you do when he woke at 5am - get him up straight away, or try to resettle at first and then give up? I personally like to fix a 'get up' time, ie a time before which I won't get them up, so will try resettling or leave then to babble away if happy. How did that first nap go after the EW? Even if bad, keeping him up a little longer beforehand should help to break the cycle eventually, although it may take time... I'd worry less about letting him catch up with a shorter A time and longer nap if the first nap ended up short, than I would about letting him catch up his night time sleep during the first nap, iyswim?

[Atomic1010]

Hi - yes the night before last it was two feeds and a short ish pat and shh to sleep. I did try to resettle him when he woke at 5 but he wasn't having it so we brought him downstairs and then kept him going until 8am when he went down for first nap and I had to bf him as he wouldn't settle, so not great but I felt that was a fair price to pay for wanting to keep him up. He slept for 1.5 hours after to not all bad.

Last night it was 5 wakings and I did 3 feeds and 2 pat/she to sleep. The gird feeding was a bf to sleep as he woke at 4.30 and was wide awake so shh/pat didn't work to resettle but a bf did and he then woke at 6am. Not ideal but I wanted to get us boy back to sleep so that sleep happens at night and is not made up for in the morning

The last two nights it's taken him up to 40 mins at bedtime to go. I'm not sure whether it's OT but to have two rotten starts to the night is v v unusual. Both days we were out and about a lot in the day so his naps weren't great and cut short most times and I can only think that had a bearing on things. So hoping settling for bedtime today goes better.

im not trying wake 2 sleep at the moment - thought I would try once we had gotten through not breastfeeding to sleep at night to see whether that itself made a difference to the wake ups.

[trimbler]

Yeah could well have been OT and don't forget OS too from being out and about, mine have both struggled to settle after exciting days - we want them to have them from time to time but often struggle with the consequences Don't worry, as they get older they do seem to be less affected by these things, other than to crash and sleep in I do mean a few years older...but it does happen in the end

Well done on stretching him to 3h the other day, sounds like it paid off with the good nap so you know he can do it... Keep going, I know it's a struggle when you're so tired but hang on in there, we're walking alongside you too

[Atomic1010]

Thanks
Last few nights have been rather challenging!

Weds night was pretty bad and he was up every 2 hours plus he was awake for an hour and a half in the early hours. Thursday night was great and he was up just 3 times and he did a four hour stretch for the first time in ages!
Last night was awful - awake at 7.30, 9.30,10.30,11.30,1.30, 2.00-4 and then awake at 7. I tried to get him to sleep without bfeeding most of the time successfully so I think the training is going ok but why he is waking so often I don't know. I think and I hope it's teething again otherwise I don't know what is happening. His naps haven't been great either especially yesterday when he woke crying 30mins into second nap so it's not a case of too much sleep in the day. What is going on??

[trimbler]

Oh dear (((hugs))) I'd suspect that with that many NWs he's likely to be in some discomfort - maybe teeth, unless there's anything else you can think of - could be sore throat due to start of a virus for example, which might not be obvious until he starts getting congested, or too hot/cold (we've had a sharp drop in temperature recently), or digestive issues - any new foods recently or bowel habits different? Just asking the obvious as it can be easy to miss if you're focussing so hard on the routine.

Do post your routine for a day or too whenever you feel able, can make it easier to guess what might be going on to see it all laid out like that. But if there's discomfort then it may be a case of riding it out if teething/illness, or doing some detective work if food related... Wdyt?

[Atomic1010]

Thanks - the routine for the last two days has been non existent as he just won't settle.

Yesterday he woke at 7.44am,
S 10-10.10 woke up crying and wouldn't go back to sleep
12.30-  1 slept and woke crying and I couldn't resettle so after a feed and some solids Dad took him out in pushchair for 1.5 hrs but he wouldn't drop off.
He then slept 4.30-5 with bedtime at 7 and he cried for 0.5 hrs clearly trying to go but couldn't despite having nurofen and so I feed him to sleep.

So as you will see from previous routine posts this isn't normal for him.

Last night and night before awful. Night before I only got two hours sleep and last night he was up every hour until 1 then it was every 2 hours. I did think that in the early hours he didn't  war, so put a blanket over him. I have a thermometer in the room and he was dressed according to guidelines for the room temp but I will put an extra layer on him tonight regardless as I think that will help.

I am fairly sure it's teething so will have to ride it out as you say but what really worries me is sleep training is not happening and I'm breastfeeding to sleep a lot now, so that is a setback.

[trimbler]

Hugs you must be exhausted, poor all of you Sounds like discomfort to me, do what you need to do to get through and we can think about weaning props later Are there any other signs of teething? Will these be his first ones?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

If he is teething then all bets are off - do whatever it takes to get you guys some rest. The sleep training can wait until the teeth are through!

[Atomic1010]

It will be his second tooth. I think it could be more than one tooth coming through as top gum looks inflamed although so hard to get a good look. He is really chomping on his fists and has been biting me when feeding. I just hope I am right in that it's teething.

Spoke to health visitor just now as we had an awful night last night and I've been up since 2.30am. LO kept waking every hour then was awake from 2.30-5 just restless and wanting to be held. HV suggested I get him checked over at Drs today or tomorrow just to check nothing else could be the issue. I'd also like to check why nurofen isn't working and whether I can also use calpol. But I can't get an appointment today so will try tomorrow.

you are probably right about the props and leaving sleep training to another time but it's frustrating and tiring at the same time  just want some Zzzzzzs!

[trimbler]

Oh yes that does sound like teething for sure! Poor thing, I know they have to go through it but it's rotten, isn't it? Good that you're going to see the doctor, hope you manage to get an appointment soon. I'm no medic but you can certainly use both Calpol and ibuprofen, together, just make sure you don't exceed the maximum dose over 24h for either. And be aware that they can take a while to kick in. I think ibuprofen is absorbed better if taken with (ie just after) food/milk? If you're seeing your doctor it might be worth checking whether the age appropriate doses on the bottle are correct for your LO, perhaps he needs a higher dose if he's especially heavy?? But as I said, I'm definitely no medic, please consult your doctor on that, I'm sure you will

More hugs  you must both be really exhausted, it will pass, don't forget

[Atomic1010]

Thanks again for your support. It's a great help to me :-)

Rough night last night again. But what was weird though was he settled himself at bedtime with no problem in about 10 mins - I didn't do anything different so this was a complete, and a nice, surprise.

I was up every 2 hrs with him although on 2 occasions managed to shh pat him to sleep fairly easily which was good. Then he was awake again from 3-4.45. Feeding him didn't get him off to sleep. He didn't want to go in his cot and just lay in my arms fairly quietly until he fell asleep. Very strange. I can't understand why he is awake for these periods given he isn't getting much sleep in the day and his nights aren't great.

Anyway Dr has prescribed him some lactulose as given his bowel movements have changed from going every day to once every five days, and crying when he goes, since he has been on solids in the past month. I'm to give him this every day for a week to try and get him to go more regularly which should mean if he was in discomfort from not pooping that will be alleviated. After a week I am to go back to the doctor for a review.

Dr also said not to give ibuprofen as it can make reflux worse. To try calpol instead.

Otherwise he found LO to be fit and well so no obvious medical reason for NWs and irritable days.

I was looking at LOs gums this morning and one top tooth looks very close so hoping it will come through soon!!

So desperate for sleep. I have developed twitch in left eye due to tiredness so I'm sure I must look like I am winking at people all the time 

[trimbler]

As poor thing he must be so tired too, as I know you are Great that you can see the tooth near though, and that you have meds for the constipation - that must be very uncomfortable for him too, so lots of reasons for all this waking My DD has been doing similar recently, she's a really late teether and I'm also wondering about cow's milk etc... Definitely discomfort going on with her, which kind of makes it easier to deal with in  a way I think, but I don't cope well with sleep deprivation either so really do relate - (((hugs)))

[Atomic1010]

Ah sorry to hear you are being kept awake too, that's no good :-(

I'm very confused....yesterday naps were great, best in almost two weeks although I fed him to sleep  and he was really settled all day. Today so far is the same. If naps today are as good then I'm going to sleep train in the day as I can't see any reason not to and I'm fairly sure he isn't in pain and is just using me to get to sleep.

Nights are still not good. Last night up every hour or two then awake for 2 hours from 3-5 which has been the pattern for the week. He hasn't been chewing his fists or pulling his ear when settling for the last couple of nights so we haven't given any pain relief and given days are more settled I am assume teeth not bothering him.

However the reason for my confusion is that he appears to be more settled however there are no teeth through. Top gums still look a little inflamed though.

I think the lactulose is giving him tummy pain and wind at night as when he is waking and crying he is bringing his knees to his chest and arching his back, and he is windy after 3am. This type of discomfort has only been happening for the last two nights so won't be giving him his dose of lactulose before bed to see what difference that makes.

I'm fairly sure teeth were bothering him before although those symptoms seem to have gone away in last couple of days...this is really strange.

If I take him off lactulose tonight, give him some calpol before bed in case he is in pain, and then we have a similar night again should I assume that he is waking out of habit now and sleep train? I don't know..he is very upset when he wakes.....

[trimbler]

Glad naps were good today, it's very possible that he's in more pain at night and not so troubled by it during the day. What do you medicate him with at night? Also I think the teeth can move up in the gums and cause pain, but then stop before they're actually through, before starting again - we've certainly had that here, very frustrating! Shame about the lactulose I suppose he's too young for Movicol, which really helped my DS but he was older then...could you go back to the doctor/pharmacist and ask for something else? I'm assuming you 've tried the 'p' foods: plums, pears, peaches, prunes, aPricots? Beware of bananas and apples (although dilute apple juice can help), carrots and squash can also be constipating, as can rice - what solids is he having? Oh and our DD found cereals (except for rice, surprisingly) made her bloated and uncomfortable, as did yoghurt, at this age - she's fine now except for straight cow's milk, which still constipates her, so we're currently looking into alternatives... Have you noticed any patterns with solid foods?

It's so hard to tell how much NWs are caused by discomfort, also just because you give Calpol doesn't mean the pain will stop altogether and it won't last all night, so I wouldn't assuming it's not pain just because you're giving Calpol. But then again there's a point at which you feel that some routine tweaks may be needed regardless of any pain, if it's been going on a while... I think your idea of sleep training during the day is a good one, as you can be fairly sure that discomfort isn't such an issue then. Wdyt?

[Atomic1010]

Hi - I was using ibuprofen at night but after the dr said that it could make reflux worse I have stopped using it and been using calpol if I've thought he needed it.

I hadn't tried the foods you mentioned to relieve his constipation and the drs didn't suggest it just the use of lactulose. Since he has been on lactulose he has been much happier and has been pretty much every day. However, after last night I've stopped using it. Last night he was up every half an hour until towards the end of the night when he crashed out for a couple of hours. Basically he had awful reflux the worst I have ever known it and no matter what I tried I couldn't get him comfy. I am surprised lactulose could be the cause but nights have been worse since he has been on it. However I guess it could be teething causing the reflux.

He has been eating mix of solids.  He always has aptamil porridge in the morning and I try to give him some puréed fruit for lunch, puréed veg for dinner but sometimes he might have more porridge. I guess the porridge could be the cause of the constipation but it does have whole grain in it?

Will be calling drs tomorrow to ask about lactulose side effects!!