Author Topic: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?  (Read 8279 times)

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Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2016, 04:20:24 am »
Just been reading a bit about jolts as you mentioned. This last nap I've stayed in room after she's asleep and watched her and part of her nap was on me...during the transition from one sleep cycle to the next I noticed her jerking and waking...if I'd not been there to immediately shush I am pretty certain she would have woken up.

She sleeps in a sleep sack arms out. I did spend a week swaddling her for day naps as wondered if it would help but didn't make a difference although she was swaddled when she did the 1hr 55 sleep. From birth she was swaddled at night until about 11 weeks if, she's now 17 weeks. During the day sometimes she was swaddled sometimes she wasn't. Prior to her shorter naps, she has done long naps in day unswaddled.

Happy to try swaddling again - she is quite a sucky baby but we have the love to dream swaddled and she used to suck her hands when in them...just can't pop her fingers in as she like to know. I could also do one in one out.

Do you think it's worth trying again, or just stick to consistent A times for now.

Can jolting increase with OT?

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2016, 04:33:45 am »
during the transition from one sleep cycle to the next I noticed her jerking and waking...if I'd not been there to immediately shush I am pretty certain she would have woken up.
This is pretty normal, you might have felt it yourself as you fall asleep - hold through the jolts can help her learn to sleep through these.

You'll have to wean it pretty soon anyway, I wouldn't bother going back to a swaddle.  Stick with your consistent A times - the jolts can increase with OT, I think. Getting the routine right usually fixed most of these side issues, so just stick with getting those A times right and resettling the naps if you can - watch for the jolts and help her through the sleep cycles and she'll be better rested.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2016, 08:26:59 am »
this is how we looked today:

6.30 - starting up call out - feed
8.40 - sleep
9.10 - Activity
10- feed - spilled a lot and then refused other side
10.35 - feed - hunger cues - one side taken.
11.05 - sleep
11.25 - wake and activity
12.40 - feed - hunger cues - fed well on both sides.
1.05 - sleep attempt - due to short previous nap and nearly falling asleep feeding multiple time - in her bed wide eyed, smiling, giggling and kicking legs. Got her back up after 15 mins
1.30pm sleep - little cry but asleep within minutes.
2.04 -woke - resettled in arms within 10 mins
4.30 - wake - resettled  with a shush 3x - resettled during first shush each time.
4.40 - feed after nappy change
5.20 - activity
6.15 - feed  and BT routine
7.10 - sleep - later than anticipated due to emergency shower but easy to settle still - held arms through jolts.


As you can see I didn't wake her after the 2 hours sleep 😁 I left it til she clocked three as thought she would still have a good A time after waking.

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2016, 10:46:22 am »
Nice long sleep there in the afternoon, hopefully as she gets used to the longer A times and becomes better rested, she will be able to do those on her own again :)

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2016, 14:27:24 pm »
Fingers crossed. Just up for a NF after 7 hrs sleep - couple of hrs short from the norm so I attempted resettle first however looking over yesterday, with spill, only taking one side and long sleep, she only really had two good full feeds. So NF makes sense.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2016, 18:39:45 pm »
We were up three times in the night 2.10 - NF, then 4.30, and 5.30. Would you expect some night waking as the A times a different to what she's used to?

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2016, 20:56:01 pm »
then 4.30, and 5.30
Depends how much milk she took and what your supply was like - her upset in the morning and seeming to want another feed could well be trapped wind... That's what those wakings within 1-2hr of a feed often are. Perhaps try lying back for any NFs and the first feed of the day and see if that helps.

The long nights could be a product of the insufficient naps and you may end up with a NF or she could be in a growth spurt.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2016, 02:57:18 am »
She took pretty much a full feed. And yes I think now you have said it it  could have been wind....I didn't take her out her bed except for the feed as I resettled her in her bed...which could be why she woke again an hour later, then and hour after that was up time.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2016, 07:42:35 am »
This is how today went.

2.10am NF - resettling attempted first though hadn't taken that much in in day. Fed well.
2.35 sleep
4.30- wake - crying out - resettled - dummy
4.35 - sleep
5.30 - awake - crying out - resettled - dummy
5.35 - sleep
6.30 - wake, feed - fed well both sides
6.55 - activity
8.28 - Sleep
9.00 wake - started to stir at 8.50  - attempted resettle but didn't work.
9.00 - activity
10.50- feed - fed well both sides
11.10 -Sleep - in car - know car isn't ideal but had an errand after baby group
1.30 - wake - no crying on waking - Activity
2.35 -feed - hunger cues - fed well both sides
3.35 - sleep
4.17 - wake - no crying - activity
4.40 - feed - hunger cues - fed well both sides
6 - feed - hunger cues - 80 ml bottle expressed milk and one side, refused other
6.30- Sleep -woke crying after 10 mins - wind
6.40 - Sleep (key phrase and hand on tummy and dummy)
7.15 - wake crying - hunger cry - feed other side fully
7.25 - Sleep

Once we are sorted with longer day sleeps we are going to loose the dummy as a worried she may start relying on it to settle/resettle which will lead to waking and request to pop it back in. Her Cuski comforter arrived today so once washed we will introduce that.

From looking at today I'm thinking her A time is between 2hrs and 2.10...though will stick with 2 hrs tom as her big sleep was in the car so movement likely aided it...that said since her shorter sleeps started she has only slept 30 mins in the car too...so I'm hopeful!

The jolts are definitely waking her settling and between cycles - except in the car but that will be because she was buckled in! I know you said to hold her through them...I'm trying to keep her in her bed...so would a hand on her tummy and using a key phrase be effective or is there something else I can do to help her through them so she gets used to them? Her bassinet is quite deep with breathable mesh sides!
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 07:45:56 am by SarahE »

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2016, 10:18:50 am »
know you said to hold her through them...I'm trying to keep her in her bed...so would a hand on her tummy and using a key phrase be effective or is there something else I can do to help her through them so she gets used to them?
Yep, hold her body, not pick her up ;) Basically just a hand on her tummy and using your sleepy phrase may work, another option is essentially to gently hold her arms, I just put a forearm gently lying across DS' upper legs and the other forearm across his chest and arms.

You are getting some longer sleeps in there, that's encouraging :)

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2016, 09:07:35 am »
So today looked like this...
11.50pm - wake - grizzley, couple of cries (not food requests) - self settled within 20 mins
12.10 am- sleep
2.50 -wake - grizzley then after 15 min was crying - nappy change, wind
3.40 - sleep - assisted settle in her bed, once settled left drowsy but awake
6.30 - awake - cooing
6.50 - crying - up and fed 1 1/2 sides
7.50 - offered 40 ml expressed milk took 20
9am - Sleep - hold arms and resettle after 35 mins, 40, 45, 50 and 55 mins
10.30 - wake - feed both sides and activity
12.30pm - sleep in car
12.40 - woke 5 mins after transfer to bed from car seat
13.00 up as unable to resettle
13.30 - feed - hunger cues - both
14.10 - sleep
14.50 -awake - unable to resettle
3.30 - feed hunger cues
4.45 - sleep
5.20 - wake - activity
5.40 - feed - hunger cues - full feed
7.00 BT routine
7.45 - sleep

At the 9am sleep should I have persisted with the resettling as much as I did? It was mainly startling/ jolts waking her.

To my eye her A times need a push...shall I try 2.15?

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2016, 08:43:50 am »
Here is today's schedule...

4.30am woke crying - NF - full feed
5.30 - sleep
6.50 - wake - activity. Feed - full both sides
9.00 - sleep
9.55 - wake - top up before swimming  - activity
11.25- feed both sides
11.50 - sleep
1.45 - wake and activity
2.40 - feed both sides
4pm - sleep - woke after 5 mins, resettled
4.15pm - sleep
4.45 - wake and activity
5pm - feed
7 - BT routine - first night without/reducing dummy use
8pm sleep

Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2016, 13:31:05 pm »
Just popping in as Bec is away for a few days. How are things going? It looks to me like the 2hr A time seems to be giving some longer naps now?

If your LO keeps falling back asleep then yes persist with the resettle. I usually stopped if I'd been trying for up to 15mins and my LO showed no signs of going back to sleep.

Not read the whole thread, but just wondering what your WD routine is? Sometimes you're getting very short naps (20mins?). Such short naps are sometimes due to overstimulation.

If she doesn't resettle when you transfer her car to bed, you might need to accept you need to park up and wait for her to wake herself. Keep a book and a snack in the glove compartment!
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2016, 23:10:59 pm »
Hi Scottishmummy,




We are going okish. The longer naps have been in the car the longest ones after an activity like baby sensory or swimming. The hour was also in the car on the way to swimming in order to get her first nap in.

So we are really struggling with long sleeps at home and I'm struggling to resettle her in her bed.

At the mo we are on day to of A time 2hrs 15 mins - give or take 5 mins. We are also withdrawing the use of the dummy to fall asleep as I was wondering if thus was causing her difficulties transitioning to next sleep cycle in the day. It doesn't seem a prob at night as she does tend to wake us til 5.30 am for NF occasionally, but usually wakes us a 6.30-7am.

I think are main difficulties not is still getting the correct A time, transitioning to next sleep cycle in day and wind down.

For wind down we go to dark room, sleep bag on, book, cuddle and then in bed...she's quite upset on being put into bed.

I have wondered about reflex as she arches her back a lots more since 3 months and gets very upset. Upset a lot when placed on her back and is spilling after meals more...sometimes after 1 hr. She also has hiccups quite a lot. And coughs a lot too. Not sure...


Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2016, 05:07:29 am »
Its definitely worth looking into reflux - overactive letdown/oversupply can also mimic reflux - similar symptoms. Given you're moving to feeding less frequently, that could have unmasked the reflux though.

Yes, it does look like she could do with an A time increase.

Dummy can be very helpful with reflux - I'd get that checked for before going too far into a wean, just to reduce the angst all round :)