Author Topic: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?  (Read 8274 times)

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Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2016, 06:44:23 am »
Mmmm mm yes you just reminded me about that I was thinking during the week that I should try unlatching her when let down starts to see if that makes a difference. We have been trying gripe water today...though we were out for two feeds and I forgot to take it with me. We are also considering trying Rhuger too.

Here is what today looked like... Not really sure what to make of it as she should have been really tired for the third nap at 3pm as we had been for a walk with the stroller and, then she'd been observing everything in a cafe for an hour but only slept 30 mins...

5.30 am - awake cooing. - resettled herself
7am - feed, activity
9.24 - Sleep
9.50 - wake and activity
10.30 - feed
12 - sleep - stroller
12.50 - wake and activity
1.20 - feed
2.45 - feed (requested) - one side
3.05 - sleep
3.40 awake and activity
5.45 - BT routine inc feed
6.15 - sleep (not sure if this will be a nap or for the night!!)

I'll wondering still if she needs a longer A time but 2.5 hrs seems a lot for a 4 month old is is that normal....I know from looking at the average timing that it's more like a 5 month old...her last awake time today (2 hrs 35 mins) was the longest she's done and she looked very tired as we started BT routine and she we t to sleep very very quickly - I fed her before bed, book after one side then, the other side, burping and put her down - as soon as I put her down her eyes closed...not a peep or a dummy required - all sleeps have been without dummy today. This is our normal routine though she's not usually as tired looking when we start the routine.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 06:49:16 am by SarahE »

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2016, 09:10:14 am »
If she's closer to 5 months than 4, 2.5 could well be what she needs. We're only going off an average here - she may be a child who need slightly more A time than average.

Going to sleep quickly is usually considered a good thing - sure is in my house! I would say that probably means you're getting her into bed when she's ready to sleep, not UT, not OT, just right.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2016, 11:20:57 am »
Awesome so that was at approx 2.5 hrs A time...

She's 18 weeks so kinda in the middle, if a touch closer to 4 months...

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2016, 20:34:14 pm »
Its not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination, its ever so slightly more than 'average' - BW is about listening to your baby, not fitting them into a box.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2016, 08:12:41 am »
Here is today...

3.10 - NF after wake and unable to resettle -1.5 sides fell asleep whilst feeding
3.50 -wake when popped to bed
4.20 - NF - hunger cues
4.50 sleep
8am - wake and activity
8.45 - eat
10.30 - sleep
11.07 wake - shirt cry then looked like going back to sleep - left as cooing to see if she would resettle - 10 mins started calling out
1.15- hunger cues - 1.5 sides started falling asleep
1.30 - sleep
2.00 - wake - attempted resettle slept for 5 mins then woke crying
4.00 - eat
4.15 -sleep - on me
4.55 -  wake
6.00 - eat a hunger cues
7- bedtime routine
8.05 sleep - very difficult to settle was aiming for a 7.20 BT


Today she seemed really tired as we got close to the 2.5 hr wake time, however all naps were short, all were at home. She was very upset from 5pm onwards and seemed very hungry today.

Would you expect this on the first day of another push?

 Im wondering if I'm wrong in thinking her sleep cycle is 30/35 mins and I'm over stimulating her as during A time we are always playing e.g listening and moving to music, play gym, black and white books, tummy time, rattles, bells, coloured ribbons, and just observing (we live on a farm so go out and look at the animals or go for walk with the stroller).


Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #50 on: July 04, 2016, 01:36:23 am »
3.10 - NF after wake and unable to resettle -1.5 sides fell asleep whilst feeding3.50 -wake when popped to bed 4.20 - NF - hunger cues
4:20 - probably gas I would reckon given a reasonable feed at 3:10

10.30 - sleep 11.07 wake - shirt cry then looked like going back to sleep - left as cooing to see if she would resettle - 10 mins started calling out
and
4.15 -sleep - on me4.55 -  wake
both suggest to me her sleep cycle is about 35 min. This kind of behaviour on waking is most likely UT rather than OT.

11.07 wake - shirt cry then looked like going back to sleep - left as cooing to see if she would resettle - 10 mins started calling out 1.15- hunger cues - 1.5 sides started falling asleep
Did you feed her when she woke from this nap? If yes, I think what you're seeing as hunger cues at 1:15 here are actually tiredness. That was my big epiphany with DS - hunger and tiredness mimic each other and I think that might be happening here given you've fed essentially at sleep time a few times on this day.

Im wondering if I'm wrong in thinking her sleep cycle is 30/35 mins and I'm over stimulating her as during A time we are always playing e.g listening and moving to music, play gym, black and white books, tummy time, rattles, bells, coloured ribbons, and just observing (we live on a farm so go out and look at the animals or go for walk with the stroller).
OS naps are usually shorter than 35min - more like 20min and baby usually just springs back up like a jack in the box wired and ready to go again. No lying for 10min cooing, yk? Given she sleeps better after swimming and such, I would keep up the physical and mental stimulation :)

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #51 on: July 04, 2016, 03:32:24 am »
Okay cool that's reassured me thanks.

I decided thus am to take her out amd have her nap in the stroller today...we went out 45 mins before her nap...she fell asleep in the car for approx 10 mins this was around a 2 hr A time. She woke as I transferred her to the stroller and started awake until 5-10 before her 2.5 A time was up....she slept in the stroller for 2 hours!

I'm wondering if it's a coincidence that all her long sleeps with the exception of one has been in the car or stroller....with only the one in her bed...I have tried in the last week plus to have all naps at home but obviously we have to go out the house a couple of times a week....I'm wondering if transitioning to the next cycle is the prob and when we're out the movement helps....if that was the case am I best persisting with having all naps in her cot? Or just going with the flow and not stressing as long as she gets at least one long nap during the day?

She's just asleep now, took a long time to settle her, so A time was closer to 2.45 than 2.5...I'm just watching her and after about 15 mins she startled/jolted and I thought it was game over but she's gone back to sleep.

I did wonder about the tiredness/hunger cues mix up - I don't think though from monitoring closely when I feed her over the last week that she can do 4 hourly so going with 3 hourly and will look at stretching it again in a few weeks. If feeding clashes with nap time I'll feed early and then feed again3 hrs after that early feed...does that sound okay?

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #52 on: July 04, 2016, 08:21:39 am »
Or just going with the flow and not stressing as long as she gets at least one long nap during the day?
really, this is the key - relax about it - no point stressing over it too much ;) Its worth trying to get some naps in the cot and still probably worth trying to get her to sleep longer in the cot but I think provided she's getting sufficient sleep and able to go to sleep independently, the long naps in the cot will come.

If feeding clashes with nap time I'll feed early and then feed again3 hrs after that early feed...does that sound okay?
Sounds fine. You could try topping up if you're worried about not getting through the 4hr.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2016, 08:56:34 am »

Ha ha so she's made a liar of me....she slept 1.5 hrs in her bed this arvo!  ;D

Hoping it's not a fluke!

So it would seem A time currently is 2.5 maybe slightly more. Will stick with 2.5 tom as start wind down earlier given the difficulty settling. I think this is poss due to no dummy - doc said unlikely to be reflux.

5.30 - wake - cooing then called out - fed -
6am - sleep
7.30 - awake - activity
8.30 - feed - both sides
9.30 - sleep in car 10 mins
9.40 - activity
9.55 - sleep
11.55 - wake,  happy and smiling
12.40 - feed - both sides
2.50 - sleep - took a 20 mins longer than normal to settle
4.20 - wake - activity
4.30 - feed
6.30 - feed
7pm BT routine
8pm - sleep - took longer to settle - not using dummy anymore.

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #54 on: July 04, 2016, 10:04:18 am »
she slept 1.5 hrs in her bed this arvo!
...after the extra long A time - perhaps she really does need a slightly longer A time than average - she sounds like she's a pretty alert, observant little thing and that often goes along with slightly higher A times and higher stimulation needs.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #55 on: July 04, 2016, 10:18:02 am »
Yes she seems very alert and nosey! First baby and not really been around babies much so nothing to compare to but from 1 week old midwife was commenting on how alert she was and others always comment on it too.


With the extra long a time before nap 2 - I was expecting a 20-25 min nap ESP when she startled at 20 mins...but she just stirred slightly at 30...and boom 1.5 hrs!

Will see what happens Tomorrow with 2.5 A time if short sleeps I'll maybe push by 10 mins on Weds. I know today's were closer to 3 hrs due to longer settling time but I think it took longer as didn't allow for enough wind down prior to her nap.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 11:01:43 am by SarahE »

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2016, 20:02:45 pm »
midwife was commenting on how alert she was and others always comment on it too.
This is a fair sign.

Will see what happens Tomorrow with 2.5 A time if short sleeps I'll maybe push by 10 mins on Weds.
Good plan.

didn't allow for enough wind down prior to her nap.
Sometimes these LOs aren't particularly keen on wind down - something short (a couple of mins) that signals its sleep time is often sufficient, so long as you are putting them down for their nap in their sleep window.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2016, 02:10:03 am »
Yesterday didn't go so well. I had an appointment at 10.30 so left early to get there before her nap and have her nap in the stroller...she fell asleep in the car on the way - still got a further hour once she went back to sleep. We only got a 30 min nap in the arvo too.

Because of the car journey yesterday I discounted it so stuck with 2.5 hrs today...we went out 40 mins before her nap time and she fell asleep in the car for 10 mins so about 30 mins prior to her nap time. I managed a smooth transfer to the stroller without waking and she had about 1.5 hrs, this arvo however her second nap was only 30 mins.

I'm wondering if her morning A time may be shorter and her arvo one longer?does that happen?

Offline becj86

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2016, 05:25:02 am »
Absolutely that happens.

Offline SarahE

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Re: Catnapping - overtired cycle, how to break it?
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2016, 07:47:36 am »
3.15 - wake - resettled
3.45 - sleep
6.40 - wake
7.00 up
7.30 - feed
8.55 - sleep  - car and transferred to stroller
10.15 - wake
10.30 - feed - one side
12.20 - feed - both sides offered
1.15 - sleep - whoops didn't realise 3 hr A time - she went to sleep in about 10 mins.
1.50 - wake - upset and looked tired - couldn't resettle - still only short nap after extra long A time.
3.20 - feed
3.40 - sleep - fell asleep after one side bf...
4.10 - wake
5.40 - feed - hunger cues - could have been tiredness cues??
6.30 - BT routine incl feed
7.10 - sleep - within a minute of popping down was very sleepy though!

Looking back over the last few days it seems her morning A time is about 2 hrs. After than I'm not sure, 2.5 seems to still get those short sleeps but today by accident - I think I was expecting her to sleep 2 hrs for her first nap so just had that time stuck in my head! She still only did a short nap after 3 hrs A time. She was quite upset for the afternoon though.

I'll try 2 hrs for first A time...what would you suggest for others? 2.40?