Bedtime for 14.5mo

[labrodyk]

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

so, winging it isn't really working. Still taking 1hr20 minute nap  and is positively miserable. Bedtime is a mess and whilst she sleeps well through the night, the day is so much hard work. She whinges and cries and wants constant attention and interaction....

Thurs 29-Dec
WU: 6.40
Nap: 11.10 PD,  11.15-1.45 broken every 10 minutes or so.
BT: 5.55 PD, 6.40
^ cried again during books! Very tired and falling asleep but fighting it so hard! Standing up in the cot, rolling around, then chatting with her eyes wide open.

Friday 30-Dec
Wu: 6.30
nap: 11.15; 11.25-12.45.
^ slept a solid 1hr20 with only the briefest of wakings at 40 minutes
BT: 6.20; 6.55 asleep
^ Screamed and upset for bath and during books and wind down again.

Saturday 31-Dec
WU: ? awake at 6.30, I woke at 7.30 and she was asleep again until 8.30
Nap: 1.44-2.57 on the beach
BT: 8.00 PD,  8.55 asleep.

Sunday 1st-Jan
WU: ?
Nap: 11.55 PD; 12.05 - 1.44
BT: 6.36; 7.36 asleep
^ screamed and cried and kept sitting up. Offered verbal reassurance over monitor but still upset. WI/WO and listened to mantra crying for almost an hour before offering her some more milk. She cried again when put back down but asleep 10 minutes later

And yet, today after a shorter A time, she managed to sleep properly from 12.05-1.55! BT took a while and she cried but for a while but was asleep within 30 minutes.
What should I do?

Monday 2-Jan
WU: 6.30 cried out but fell back to sleep until 7.30
Nap: 11.55; 12.05-1.55
^ 10.15 eye rub, 11.30 rubbing eyes through lunch and through reading books.
BT: 7.00; 7.30 asleep
^ resistance and screamed and cried and stood up but fell asleep in 30 minutes.

[labrodyk]

Back to a short nap and taking a ridiculous amount of time to fall asleep at BT.

NW: 2.00. Crying out.

Tuesday 3-Jan
WU: 6.30.
Nap: 11.55 PD; 12.05-1.28. OOB at 2.00
^ was pretty tired after swimming at 10am but didn't sleep in the car despite trying to.
BT: 7.00; 8.00 asleep!!

[creations]

Just want to let you know I'll try to stop by tomorrow and read you posts properly.
I'm not very well today and have tried to catch up with a few threads from yesterday but I'm done now x

[labrodyk]

Don't be silly,  you poor thing. Take some time for you and try and rest as much as you can! Hope you feel better soon. 


Our EASY for today was okay,  a bit better at bedtime but she is fighting me like nothing else. Wants to keep going and going and going, reading books especially and screams absolute hysterically when I leave the room and then bursts of crying sporadically.
Not as active before nap time but the same screaming resistance...
Wednesday 4-Jan
WU: ? 7.00
nap: 11.58; 12.08-1.34
BT: 6.45; 7.20

Thursday 5-Jan
WU: 6.40, then back to sleep until 8.00

WU: 6.40, then back to sleep until 8.00!
What do I do nap wise when she sleeps in? Keep it at 12 or move it slightly?

The sleeping and screaming is starting to upset me and Audrey's not looking quite so happy and alert during the day. Very clumsy and whinging/crying a a lot.

[creations]

Hi again - sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, turned out I had a vom-virus but I'm getting over it now.

Hmm..so her nap is a bit shorter but she's extending her night.  With a longer night she can maybe cope with the shorter nap of 1.5hr rather than 2hr.  But you say her mood is not good.  If she continues to self regulate like this though her mood could improve.  I would hold the nap at 12 as you have been doing.  The only thing is that if her later morning WU doesn't suit you (do you have school run to be up and out for?) then I'd put her to bed 30 min or so earlier to allow for the possibility of a longer night.  It could be a one-off though this 8am WU where she wants to catch up which is also fine.

I would probably still try to extend that nap with W2S if you can.  The 2 hrs in the day would likely help her mood if you can get it.  Don't beat yourself up about it though, you're doing everything you can x

[labrodyk]

You poor thing Creations! I really hope you're feeling better soon.

I think she may be sick or something because she has terrible diarrhoea, and cried pretty much all day. I gave pain meds because she had soaked through 3 bibs with saliva in just a couple of hours and I can feel the remaining top molar bumps. Not sure if the two are related.

Regardless, after a 4hour A,  I out back to bed and she didn't cry and slept 11.58 (11.53 PD) - 1.48pm. BT is 6.55, asleep 7 25. She REALLY doesn't like bedtime either and screams when books are over and when I leave her. She can continue to sulk and cry out for quite some time but I only go back in I'd it's more than just loud cranky mantra crying.

[creations]

Oh dear sounds like teething.
YK everything medical I've read on the internet (so it must be true ) says bad nappies are not linked with teething and yet every parent I ever spoke to will swear bad nappies and illness come right along with teething.  Mine was ill with all his teeth.

Separately though - I wonder if books might be too stimulating at BT?  What do you think?
Lots of people put reading in the BT routine from an early age but mine couldn't cope with a book at BT until he was about 4.5yo.  Don't get me wrong, he LOVED books, but we read at any other time of the day, not BT.  It just popped into my head how mine would scream his head off during a potty sit and would refuse to get off until I had read ALL 15 books in his book box by the potty, it was draining!  I reduced the books down to 2-3, literally removed them from the room, and potty trips were suddenly much better.  He had been using his potty trip to get lots of one to one time and lots of book reading, I just made it really clear to him that I was available to read but wanted to sit on the sofa for it, and not by the potty!
Mine could be quite demanding over books tbh wanting more and more an more, he could recognise most of the alphabet by 20 months though and sounded out his first word (which I couldn't believe) at 21 month so all that demand for reading was because his brain wanted the input and development.  We just had to make sure it was at a suitable time.
We did reading any time of the day he wanted it and we could accommodate him, plus early in the BT routine (he had a 20 min TV prog at the start of his routine, if he chose to have book reading during this programme and there was an adult available he got it), another book was read to him whilst he was in the bath, after bath though it was PJs, into his room in the dark, 1 song then kiss goodnight and straight to sleep.  At my BT I would place a book wedged between his cot rails and mattress so that when he woke in the morning he could "read" to himself for 20 mins before getting up.  During morning milk I read to him, he would sit on my knee with his straw-bottle of milk and I'd read a book or 3 and cuddle.  We also took books to all appointments, cafes etc so he always had some to read if waiting for something.  During the day he would ask for books and I'd pretty much agree whenever it was possible.  So you see there was plenty of reading time in the day, just not at BT. I just wonder if your DD is very keen on the books which is making her so demanding and grouchy when you stop?  She could end up an early reader - who knows?

[labrodyk]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply, I really appreciate it. Is your DS gifted? That is incredible for 20/21 months. Audrey is obsessed - I think i've read 30+ books today!!!

This was our EASY:

Friday 6-Jan
WU: ?. OOB at 7.30
Nap: 11.58; 12.05 - 1.35.
^^ Tried W2S and she sighed and twitched. It's hard to know what stage she is in her sleep cycle as she tends to wake at the 40 minute mark and then take a litle while before drifting off again. So perhaps it wasn't at the 1hr10 mark...
BT: 6.35; 7.25 asleep!

So tonight I removed the books as you suggested and I think it made a difference but she took a long time to fall asleep. I moved bath time back and then got her out and dressed her in her dimly lit room after some moisturiser, into sleeping bag and then held her for a cuddle/prayers/song. She didn't cry at all when I lay her down and left the room but then she rolled around and chatted for 50 minutes!

I did an earlier PD into bed than usual because I'm getting worried about OT, especially in the morning where she seems genuinely tired and cranky. Walking around the house sucking her thumb and whinging over everything.

[creations]

When my DS recognised letters, numbers etc I thought all kids did at that age, I had nothing to compare to really. It took me a while to figure out he was a bit ahead of the curve. I don't know about "gifted" though, his nursery teacher put him on the gifted and talented list for the attached school (they don't do G&T in nursery but she expected him to move to their school where they do have a G&T programme) not long after he started nursery when he was 3, and he was already reading fluently then, but he didn't go to that school and where he is at they don't have a G&T programme and don't talk to me about his development.  So, I don't know. He is ahead for now but I just tend to think by the time they are 18 no one will care who started reading at what age or at what age they could tell the time etc, yk? Everyone will be able to do it.
Certainly though, what you have said about your DD craving for books, it is just like my DS. 30+ books in a day I can easily believe.
My mum made little flip books from flash cards (a hole in the corner so they all held together on a loop), I wondered what on earth she was bringing this stuff to the house for, letters, numbers, colours, shapes, animal pictures etc...but left to his own devices he would go to his toy/book box and dig them out, bring them to an adult and demand to be told what each one was and when we'd finished he'd just flip it all back to the start and demand again.  he had his own choice of toys to play with etc and of course did play with other things but he was SO keen for information he would just complain and complain if we wouldn't do it - just easier to give in and say the words yk?

It sounds like Bt for you was calmer without the books, but still took her a long time to wind down to sleep. She might perhaps have a very active brain whirling away sorting everything out and storing all her memories of the day.  I don't have any suggestions for that I'm afraid.  Mine generally fell to sleep very quickly (apart from the usual phases) but he often woke in the early part of the night having some sort of developmental dream, once he was verbal I could get a sense of his dreaming by what he shouted out in his sleep (letters, numbers!!), he must have been processing it all in his sleep. Perhaps your DD is processing prior to sleep and it's just her way to take a long time to relax?
Sorry I don't seem to be much help.
I do know though that many LOs moving to one nap do get OT over time and eventually the nap or night lengthen to accommodate the amount of sleep needed, same with the nap drop, they don't seem to get as much as they need to begin with but eventually lengthen the night.
The teething too though - it just goes on and on doesn't it, and as soon as they come into a lighter sleep they wake with the discomfort of teeth moving even if they are not cutting at the time.

Is there any light getting into her room in the morning?  Could she sleep later in a darker room?

[labrodyk]

That is absolutely incredible, he must keep you in your toes. People say my DS (4 last October) is gifted and he's always been WAY ahead of his peers. Not a reader like yours but has an almost photographic memory. Like you said, I'm not doing anything other than read to him like crazy and assist with 5000 piece puzzles 😱  whose to say that he plateaus and is just like everyone else by the end of kindergarten or even later. One step at a time.

As for AJ and her crazy sleep antics, thank you for your help. My older son Harry was much the same with the crazy wind down before bed, until he dropped the nap and he was asleep so fast it was crazy. That said, the child still naps the second we are in the car and I can often tempt him to lie down in his bed and he will sleep for a good hour.

I just don't want Audrey to be OT because she's no fun. The teeth are crazy but I didn't give pain meds today because I didn't want to keep upsetting her tummy.
Her room could be a bit darker but as we are renting there's not much more I can do - she has black out blind and curtains but still light escapes through.

Should I stick with 7pm PD into bed, without the books? It's just that at 4/5pm she acts pretty tired so I never know what to do... Same for the morning, I pretty much carry her around from 9/9.30am to stop the whining!

[creations]

Try half an hour earlier to bed maybe?
I mean I would if mine had a shorter nap than I thought he ought to have but then mine was quite clear when he was UT and I'd know to just try again later, if he needed the early bed time he took it.

Your Harry sounds brilliant. Don't think my DS has attempted a 5000 piece jigsaw yet, I think 1000 is his max so far

[labrodyk]

I am partial to a good puzzle so regularly pick up one from our local op-shop (like a charity store in the UK?) and then return once we've finished it.  That and Lego...far out I'm about to throw it all out we have so much and he's only 4!


So today we had an interesting day and I can't quite figure it out. It seems that when we put her down earlier she is more likely to attempt more than 2 sleep cycles in the day but then there is a longer A to bed but this isn't consistent each day.
My husband felt really cruel today as he looked after her as he said she was miserable and he couldn't keep her up. Yet when I put her down for bed, she screamed for a few minutes and then cried out every 5 minutes but it was only 20 minutes not 50 like last night until she was asleep.

She turned 15mo today.

Saturday 7-Jan
WU: 7.05 (almost 12 hours)
Nap: 11.25; 11.30-1.00. Woke but resettled some time later until 1.45.
^ based on what my husband says but highly likely she was awake from 1pm and just dozing for the remaining time...i don't know.
BT: 6.4; 7.03
^ screamed when I put her down and cried out every 5 minutes...we didn't do books like you suggested.

[creations]

Well, it looks to me like she did a 1.5hr nap on the day you posted where nap was 12 and also a 1.5hr nap on the day you posted where nap was at 11.30 - perhaps she seemed happier going down for it earlier and having the longer A time before BT?
I'm racking my brain for ideas!
The teeth certainly can make kids seem OT and miserable all day, do you have some good teethers she can gnaw on (mine mostly rejected the real teethers and went for a huge plastic letter he gnawed on)? Offering hardish finger foods to get her gums into (it relieves the pain if it's hard, mine like bread sticks)?  Chilled teethers or chilled muslin/face cloth to chew on can help (Tracy suggested a damp cloth being frozen, we tried this a few times).

Physical activity - plenty of it before nap and BT, if she is mentally tired but not physically tired she might not relax so well.

Are you trying paracetamol instead of ibuprofen?  I think you mentioned upset tummy with ibuprofen, it's prob better for teething pain but paracetamol might help on the days you don't want to give ibup??

[labrodyk]

Oh I have no idea what's wrong with her but if you saw her you'd think the child never slept. Her eyes have black bags underneath them and she isn't interested in any food. She acts hungry but then just rubs food in her eyes and throws it away and gets cranky.
I'm trying all those things you suggested for the teeth but I'm a little concerned it's more than teeth. I am medicating with both paracetamol and ibuprofen, depending on the day and how her nappies are.
She's just so unpredictable and those last few hours before midday feel soooo long.

She's cried out twice so far tonight at 10.30 and 11.30pm and rolling around sucking her thumb trying to get back to sleep only to wake fully at 11.45 and is now chatting and saying daddy ...  She was awake for well over an hour. Could it be linked to her day or something else? I truly can't understand her!

We are going to a football/soccer game tomorrow so it's going to be a long night. Would love if she could do a big nap but I know she won't!

[creations]

Could it be linked to her day or something else? I truly can't understand her!

Well, of course it's possible, but it sounds more like teething pain to me.  If you have any medical concerns then obviously a trip to the doc to get her checked out, there could be something medical or the doc could reassure you that everything is basically okay and she is just struggling with these molars.  There was no let up for us in that second year.

I think you'll just have to do what you can to get through.  If things continue like this without her increasing her nap or night to get her fully rested then, well, perhaps two short naps??  I guess she wouldn't do longer than 40 mins if you gave her two naps but you never know you might have a LO who does better on that?