Bedtime for 14.5mo

[labrodyk]

Yep, I think it was teething...shes still a drooling mess, terrible nappies and sore bottom. Poor thing seems so tired.

We did a later nap today because of church so her EASY was;

Wu: 7.00
Nap: 12.20; 12.30-1.45 and try as I might I couldnt get her to sleep longer. She sat up and chatted until 2.30 when I got her out. She was tired and cranky not long after but we went out to the football so she was pushed through.. 
BT: 7.50; chatting and rolling around until 8.

How much longer do I try this for? What would a 2 nap day even look like at this age? Would I wake from either sleep and when would they start?

[creations]

I think you've tried this one nap for 2-3 wks or longer now is that right?
I would have thought that there would have been some stability showing around now - either lengthening of the nap or the night or for those to stay the same length but for her to look more refreshed and be in a better mood.  You could continue - there are FAQs and stickies advising to just plough through with the mid-day nap and wait for it to sort itself out.
On the other hand if you think going back to two naps might be worth a shot then there are a couple of samples here for 15 months on 2 naps which might work:
Sample EASY Routines 13mth +
Looks like first nap around 11 and second around 3-4pm.  I would guess (and it is only a guess) in your case the first nap would be variable between 40 min and 1hr 20 ish.  And the second nap would likely be a CN more regularly.  BT would likely move later, perhaps 8.30/9pm although you can certainly try earlier and see what level of resistance you get.

It may well be worth a try - slightly different scenario but I tried a few different things with DS during the 1-0 drop, whilst I know consistency is usually key, being consistent on the wrong thing doesn't lead to success does it?  After about 2 weeks of no nap I offered my DS a nap with me thinking he'd say no but he said yes and we both dozed in my bed for around 2hrs, seemed to be just what he needed for a one-off even though his nap was fully dropped.

[labrodyk]

Hi Creations! Sorry to keep going on and on and reading my vents. I'm finding bedtime super stressful and I never know how to handle it... I always do the wrong thing 

We had been trying unsuccessfully for a 2 nap schedule from almost 11mo. We were already capping the afternoon nap at 15 minutes from 4.45-5.00 but she often took 40 minutes to take the catnap and then wouldnt be falling asleep until after 9pm with the same bedtime shenanigans.

Nap today was a little better. She isn't falling asleep in the stroller or car in the morning so I can't get a nap in there and she won't nap anywhere in the afternoon so I have little choice but to power through to one nap.

She isn't necessarily upset in the day. Especially if we go out and she's super alert and active but go to out her down for a nap and she fights like crazy and either short naps or takes forever to go to sleep - both involve crying which really upsets me. She's also do clingy, cries and wants to be held ALL the time when we are home.

Monday
WU: 6.00 crying out but back to sleep until 7.00 ish
Nap: 12.00; 12.05 -  2.15
Very broken and woke frequently at 12.35, 12.47, 1.50. Awake and standing up a couple of times before seeming to go back to sleep...
^ screamed when I went to her room and put her down.
BT: 6.20 PD, 7.30 finally asleep
^ screamed when we went to her room after bath, all through changing and cried in my arms and when put into bed.

[creations]

Oh please don't think you always do the wrong thing!   You are doing everything you possibly can xx

Sometimes these phases just do seem to go on for ever.  It's horrible but it's going to pass eventually.
I can only think that it is the teething tbh.  Routine looks okay.
I saw that nap 12.05 - 2.15 and thought "oh great" until I saw how many times she woke which looks like OT or pain but she didn't have an overlong A time prior to nap so I can only think teething pain. I'm sorry I seem to be so little help.

[labrodyk]

  I know it passes, it's just so upsetting and stressful for everyone. You are so helpful, more than you know, thank you!

So today was a little better and the nap lengthened a little bit...

Wu: 7.20?
Nap: 11.55; 12.10-1.50 so we at least got past 1hr 20! She was happy at PD too which makes a change. She stands up the SECOND she opens her eyes. 😂
BT: 6.30 PD, 7.30 asleep. Chatted for an hour!

Is that BT going to give me UT issues? I pulled it back because day naps were short and I was trying to compensate and reduce the crying... Should I leave it as is regardless of nap length?

[creations]

Should I leave it as is regardless of nap length?

I would *mostly* keep BT as a set time, whether that is 6.30 because she takes so long to relax and go to sleep for a 7.30 sleep, or whether that is 7 (or 7.30 or whatever) because she settles more quickly the later it is - whichever, it's "set". BUT if you had a day with an awful 40 min nap say then I'd do EBT another 30-60 min earlier than the normal set time.  Don't forget set means usually at this time and not moved daily based on naps but it doesn't mean you can't change it one day because of something unexpected happening.

I really don't see that I am being of any help but I will keep posting as you seem to find it useful somehow
I can do hand holding when I am out of useful ideas xx

[labrodyk]

Oh Creations, PLEASE hold my hand I don't know what to do!!

Well 6.30 for a 7.30 bedtime makes sense off a short nap but what happens if the naps that are never long are suddenly long? I wanted to keep her up a bit to see her Dad so I pushed it to 6.55 until PD instead of 6.30 but it's been an hour and she's still singing and laughing and squealing and calling out all the words she knows.

Wednesday 11-Jan
Wu: 7.20?
Nap: 11.55; after 12.00 - 2.47
^woke a few times and appeared restless.
BT: 6.55 PD; 8.10 asleep!!!
^ completely undertired. Singing,  chatting,  wide awake.
NW: 10.30 crying out
NW: 11.17 crying out

Thursday 12-Jan
WU: 7.00 or earlier
The nap she was absolutely shattered and I can't understand why. She was exhausted and almost asleep on my shoulder when I put her down and she suked her thumb most of the nap which is weird. She sat up a fajr bit before rolling over and falling asleep again and did this several times.

What am I missing? What am I getting wrong? Surely I'm mistiming something... *sigh* so over it!

[creations]

If you're missing something then I am missing it too.  I really can't see what is keeping her awake other than developmental leaps and/or teeth.

Want me to get some other eyes over here to see if someone else can see something?

Does she hit mile stones early?  18 month regression come very early??  Mine had his 18 month regression at 16 months, his 4 month regression came at 3.5 months, his 10/11 month wonkiness for the beginning of the 2-1 came at 9 months.  Is you DD like this??  Could it be the 18 month regression?
The only good thing about that would be that you get it over with earlier haha!

At BT have you ever sat outside her room and just said "be quiet and go to sleep"?
I have a memory of doing this with DS, can't remember when, I've just remembered it.  I said it in a firm voice (not telling off, not angry, not pleading or begging - more instructional if that makes sense?) so he knew I meant business.  Wonder if it could help reduce the BT chatting and singing?

[labrodyk]

If anyone else can shed some light, we'd appreciate it. Hubby can't understand it either.

She is an early mileston hitter and she joined a couple of words together (Ta, mum) so it could be developmental, SR come early, teeth (canines? Can't see anything at the gum line yet).  Who bloody knows.

This was today. Not sure what's going on with the longer naps. I wondered if it was teeth OR she's finally lenghtening? Meh, who knows but I worry about bedtime because there is only so early I can put her to bed to avoid OT. 

Thursday 12-Jan
WU: 7.00 or earlier.
Nap: 12.00PD -2.20. Woke between cycles but fell back to sleep!
BT: 7.00; not asleep until 8.05
^ didn't like me putting her down, cried at 7.30 and then rolled around awake and trying to settle.

Friday 13-Jan
WU: 7.00ish, I'm not sure.
Nap: 12.00-1.30
BT: 6.50; 7.40 asleep (50 minutes after 5+ A time) 
Didn't cry tonight but still won't stop talking and rolling around but then cries out loudly and upset every little while!
Nw: 11.00 cried out.

BT routine. Just incase it's relevant.
5/5.30 we ear dinner
Then a play and a cup of milk if she hasn't already had it with dinner
6 30 or half hour before PD for bed we have a bath. Followed by a massage and into pj's and sleeping bag. We then say prayers and two songs and place her in her cot. I do a quick pickup of stuff around the room whilst I give verbal reassurance if she's crying, before leaving the room.
I give more verbal reassurance if she's still crying, telling her it's sleepy time and to go to sleep. A minute later or less she starts squealing, calling out,  chatting, babbling, you mame it she does it.

[creations]

Routine still looks good, better even with that longer nap.
I do wonder if it is just developmental and/or teeth or her character to take a long time to WD for sleep at night and you will kind of have to accept it to a certain degree.
As example, mine always cried out in the early part of night sleep and it is his character/nature. Nothing routine wise would ever make any difference at all.  He is just prone to very verbal dreaming and processing during sleep, and waking himself up to moan. The frequent early evening NWs eventually stopped when he was older but he is now prone to OT if BT is even 30 min late and he's just turned 6yo. Most 6yo seem to be able to handle flexible BT or the odd late night, mine screams like he is in agony 30 mins after BT and hourly until midnight if he goes to bed 30 min late - it is amazing - but it is also just him. I accept it as his quirk.

[labrodyk]

I wish I could get that longer nap more often but it is what it is... We went swimming this morning so PD at 12.10 for nap.

I guess our bed routine is okay? We'd love to read books but at least she's not crying when there over anymore...

So,  should I worry that the A is so long to when she falls asleep. Regardless of 1hr20/1.5 or 2hr+ nap what time should I aim to have her in her cot before leaving the sleep part up to her. Would 7pm be okay. I'm finding bedtime hard with the idea of having her 'asleep by' because thats not something I have control over or is even remotely predictable.

You're so helpful just talking me through stuff, I really appreciate it.

[labrodyk]

SHE DID IT!!! Somehow the stars aligned and today she had both an awesome nap and was asleep by 7.20, possibly earlier! I did push her nap slightly and PD at 12.10 (asleep 12.15, 12.20 at the latest). She slept a solid 1hr20 without stirring then rolled over and sucked her thumb asleep for another 40 minutes. Then bedtime she was eye rubbing in the bath so acted quickly and had her down at 6.55 (SHE DIDN'T CRY!!!)

WU: 7.00
Nap: 12.10; 12.15/20 - 2.20
BT: 6.55; asleep by 7.20!

This is likely never to be repeated but I had to share that it actually happened. Thank you for everything.

Sunday 15-Jan
WU: 7.40!

Do nap times stay the same when they sleep longer in the am?!

[creations]

Wow great day then!
Can I just confirm - the reason she went down late was due to swimming class?  This will have had a huge impact. I don't know if you only just started the class or have seen some effect of swimming on previous weeks but the level of activity during swimming is huge, and will make her much more tired.
If this was the swim day then one thing you can do the rest of the week is dramatically increase physical activity in the morning. Hard to arrange sometimes and I expect you can't go swimming every day but the level of activity does have quite an impact on toddlers.  She may also need an opportunity to burn off energy in the afternoon - mine needed physical activity just prior to BT so work off any remaining energy he had.  We did stuff in the house, jogging, frog jumps, wrestling with mummy, hand push (kind of wrestling on the floor but it's very controlled), toddler band (walking with instruments and singing), Grandma's Footsteps and What time is it Mr Wolf.  Usually the same activity every night for a good while before changing.

Leave nap and BT the same regardless of WU and nap length.  Although you can't control what time she falls to sleep you can do PU consistently - just keep it where it is now.
Glad you had a good day

[labrodyk]

Hi Creations! Thank you. I will take all your advice about physical activity, I agree she needs this but the temps have been so high here (in the high 30 and early 40 degrees)  that it's not always possible. We do swimming once a week but usually an early morning class for my older son at 9am so we are home well before nap time. I fed her a sachet squeezie food on the swimming/good map day in the car on the way home then walked in the house and put her to bed straight away...

Today was not as great. We were at my parents and we used the porta-cot, plus her white noise. After waking at 7.40 this morning she went down at 12.10 PD, asleep 12.20 but woke by 1/1.10. DH  put her down at 6.10 for bed and at first she was quiet but then after 10 minutes she mantra cried off and on until almost 7pm!

This morning she was awake when j woke at 7 but she fell back to sleep some time later until 8.30. How should I approach naps and bedtime when WU is significantly later? in worried she will short nap at 12 then do I PD for BT earlier?

[creations]

I would just stick to the set times if ever you are unsure.
If you are worried abotu a short nap due to short A time then maybe put down later and wake up at the usual time so that you can get back on track (or almost) by BT.