3 month old and 30/45 min naps..

[Mommyadel]

This issue has emerged these last few weeks with the 30/45 min cat naps. 30 mins means he was over tired and 45 could mean under tired or needs more activity time correct? Yesterday he cat napped all day expect at 2pm he slept til 3:30pm.... I've trying going in as soon as he wakes to put the soother in but he just won't settle. I know his activity time
From the time he wakes to the time he sleeps should be 1:20 to 1:30... sometimes he doesn't start to yawn until 1:30 mark... so I'm not sure if he tired enough? Or maybe I am waiting tooo long to put him down. If I try to early he fights the swaddle to get out and focuses more on that than sleeping and gets frustrated with it. I'm really at a loss at what to do I know I have to play with the activity time to find the right number as he has trouble transitioning to the next sleep cycle. I tried the sushi pat when he was really young with lots of success but not I'm not sure what to do. He can fall asleep on his own and sometimes I can just lay him in the crib and he drifts off to sleep. I do the same 4/5 s for each nap. I suppose I can't complain as his night slee is awesome. He settles at 7/8pm do at 10 wakes for feed at 3/4... eats again around 7 and will either sleep til 8/9 or wakes for the day at that feed.

Any suggestions? I had the same problem with my daughter but managed to find the sweet spot with naps and she started sleeping 1:30/2hr naps.

[creations]

I'm guessing from what you've said that he is UT and needs a little more A time, maybe aim for more like 1hr 30 - 1hr 45  and see how it goes for a few days?

Did you try the W2S I linked for you on your previous thread?

[Mommyadel]

I sure did try the w2s yesterday and had great success ... one nap was 1:30 and the other was 1:40... so I am very happy with that. Will try to extend the wake time a bit more and see how we fare out! So glad you mentioned the w2s as I forgot about that technique! Thank you so much for your support!

[creations]

Oh that's great you had success yesterday - keep trying for a few days if you can and then see how LO goes without it.  Sometimes takes a few cycles to have a long lasting result.

[Mommyadel]

Well he is at it again only taking 30/45 min naps. Now I'm running into feed time/ nap time at the same time. So it's resulting in a feed to sleep prop because that's all I can do. But I wonder if maybe I should hold off on feeding him as he only has 2 maybe 3 oz a feed and doesn't seem very hungry for it after the 3 he mark.( formula fed) do you think I should go on with the feed or wait til he wakes from his nap?
He went to bed at 7:30pm
Woke/ feed at 6:50( he likes to cluster feed in the evening he usually has a huge bottle probably 8/9oz after all is said and done)
Woke/feed at 7:15
DF at 10:15 (5oz)
Woke at 2:45... gave him soother until 4 and fed him 3 oz
Woke at 6:24
Fed at 7 1.5 oz
Sleep at 7:50
Woke at 8:35

[creations]

How long is he awake between naps in the day now?

Also here is a link which shows a 3.5hr EASY sample. Maybe have a look and see if you think it will suit your LO now that you are saying E is getting too close to S.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0

[Mommyadel]

That's too bad as I missed his growth spurt! He just had it about 2 weeks ago. I will try the 3.5 hr easy and see where it goes. His morning nap he is always tired much earlier... but he only sleeps 30mins so I don't have much to loose at this point!
He is also still swaddles. I have been leaving him unswaddled at nap time
Until he falls asleep on his own and thengoing in and swaddling ( easy to get back to sleep when waking at 30 min mark) and also swaddling him at night time for bed and then  un swaddled at df and laying him on his tummy for night sleep. He wakes around 3/4 for feed and will leave him unswaddled until either his ready for the day or he is fussy at night to get him to go back to sleep. Thoughts? Or do u think I should just stop altogether and since he is only napping 30 mins now and I would be dealing with the same issues in a few weeks time when I unswaddled him completely. How do u tell when the moro reflex is gone? My lo is so strong and just yesterday I caught
Him scooting his legs under his bum and. Took one little crawl. He does still really love the swaddle, he does fight it at the 30 min mark if I can't resettle. I do try to do only one change at a time and not all at once.. so for example.. I am going to start to transitioning him to a 3.5 hr easy, I can't seem to think clearly as to what I should do as the whole 30 min thing is a bit fustrating... do u think I should wait to unswaddle or just do it now?

[creations]

I don't think I'm the best to advise on swaddling as I only swaddled until 10 wks and only for day naps where my LO was supervised because he took day naps in the family room where I could see him. I never swaddled at night and at 10wks he wanted to sleep in his night bed for naps not in the family room so I just didn't swaddle.  I was too sacred of the SIDS risk, which also meant I wouldn't let him sleep on his tummy.  Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread with this question to get some different experience?

[Mommyadel]

I think I will keep going with swaddling  until I see he has better control of his movements. I only swaddle for day naps and I think until he learns to connect his sleeps cycles will keep going ( hopefully for only a few more days). He sleeps in his crib for naps and night sleep.
He is still waking at the 30 min mark, so I go in and hold him until he passes the 45 min mark and then I lay him back in the crib. I am able to extend his naps to about the 1 hour 30mins by doing so.  I tired the sush pat and holding pressure points does not work. Hopefully I am not creating a prop by holding him for those 15 mins.
I have also moved him to 3.5 hr feeds in which he now finishes his bottles ( thank goodness!) last night he settled at 7, df at 10, woke at 5 for feed and woke for the day at 8am. I suspect now that he is taking more during the day, he will not need the night time feed very soon.

This is how things are now, any other suggestions or do you think I am doing well based on what I explained?

[creations]

If you are holding him for 15 mins during his nap you can expect him to learn this is how naps go and he will continue to wake up and expect to fall back to sleep in arms.  LOs only know what we teacher them.  Really to reach the goal of independent sleep you need to be keeping him in the cot, lifting for comfort if needed but putting him right back in when calm but not asleep. The W2S method means you do not wait until he wakes to begin the soothing process through the transition, LO may or may not fully wake but it generally keeps them calmer through that time and easier to get back to sleep in the cot.

[Mommyadel]

Well it was too good to be true! He does fall asleep on his own when he goes down for a nap. I just place him in the crib and he goes to sleep... it's just at the 30 min mark he always stirrs.. that after the 45 min mark I lay him back in the crib. He slept today for 1 hr 40 mins. I will keep trying.
I have been going in at the 20 min mark, just enough so he stirrs.

[creations]

I suggest the W2S method where you help him right through the transition from before he stirs/wakes up to deep sleep rather than the other method for older LOs where you disturb them slightly. W2S caps option 1.  Personally I wouldn't use the method where he stirs a little, I would see him right through.

[Mommyadel]

Well that certainly was very frustrating and perhaps I did it wrong. Went in at the 30 min mark, gently rolled to side to get to his back and starting gentle patting. Eyes opened after 30 secs, opened closed for awhile ( no crying so I just patted and no sushing) kept going till body relaxed about 10 mins. Slowly stopped and watched, more wiggly and burrowing head into mattress and a few crys. Continued to pat, eyes open and closing , now closed kept patting for a few more
Mins and then eyes snapped back open and tried to burrow head into mattress. By this time it's not at the 1 hr 10 min mark. I picked him up patted his back a few times and gave a little rock and put him back in the crib. He slept 1 hr 45. I must be doing something wrong. Perhaps the sush pat is not for him, I did it quite a bit when he was really small. He responds better to the pat than the sush unless he is crying in which case he does.  I'm not sure what to do at this point, feeling a bit lost now 

[creations]

Perhaps try not rolling him onto his side. You can pat on the nappy areas, say the hip area (not tummy) and still create the same reassuring feeling. Or a firm hand with a little jiggle or rock in the cot.  It sounds like you picked him up when he was not crying but rather because he was not asleep - the method of sleep training means you don't pick up unless LO really needs it because he is crying.  By picking him up mid nap to get him back to sleep you are reinforcing the prop that already exists and prolonging the whole process.  He will not learn to settle in his cot if you continue picking up mid nap to get him back off.

Sleep training methods are not expected to work immediately, it is a process where you teach LO and LO learns with your support. It can mean some broken and disturbed sleep and some loss of sleep if LO does not resettle but ultimately you will reach your goal and LO will sleep independently through respectful sleep training methods.  It takes time.

[Mommyadel]

Well I am happy to report that the short naps have somewhat curbed a bit. He is now 5 months old and the best nap I get from him is usually in the morning with his nap starting between 9-10 and lasting anywhere from 1:30 to 2hrs, working in his afternoon nap and I can on most days get him down for 1:30hrs between 1:30-2:30 depending on when he woke from his last nap. We do 2 hours of activity time maybe a bit more to 2:15 hrs in the morning only and no more than 2 hrs after each nap.  I try to sneak in a 45 min cat nap around 4/4:30... but that does not always go to plan. Yesterday I tried and from 4:30-5pm he would not take a nap and I had tried everything from shh pat/ going back in to do the 5 s again and he was not having it. So I finally got him done at 6 and he would only sleep for 30mins as he was ot. This seems to be the thing now, trying to find out the happy spot for night time sleep as I have a lot of waking after putting him down. I do I 5 s for sure right now as he needs it more so than ever as compared to before I could do maybe 1-2 mins and he would settle and go to bed. So if his last nap was at say 2:30/3pm or if I can squeak in a cat nap at 4:30/5pm  for 30mins when should I put him down for sleep as I know he is getting it as the day goes on. Last night he went to bed at 6 woke at 6:30... I just kept him up since I knew he would not go back to bed and tried for 7:45... he was awake every 20-30mins thereafter until 10:20pm... I won't be doing that today. I will just leave him in his room and keep him there to try and settle him.

Any suggestions?