looking for Jan/Feb 05 moms to chat...

[Leah's Mom]

Schae-
Good for you for going out last night!!! I'm with Deb though - I don't htink I could make it past midnight! We have graduation parties to attend this afternoon (I'm a teacher). We'll see how that goes! We are bringing Leah with, put I plan on putting her in the baby bjorn (front pack) she loves it and can usually sleep in it! Not such a nice day here today though - about 65 degrees and it looks like rain! Yuck! Take care!

[HeatherC]

Christine-
My labor was induced at 4:45 pm on the 3rd, and Kelsey wasn't born until the 4th at 1:42 pm.  It sounds long, but it was okay.  A very slow induction was what my doctor planned, and I never had much pain due to a great epidural.  I only pushed for 27 minutes and never felt a thing.
Also, I wanted to talked to you about naps.  We have similar wind down routines, except that I do use a rocking chair.  We change diaper, then sit in the chair.  Right away she realizes that it's nap time and starts to fuss, but as soon as she gets her paci she's quiet.  I hold her in the chair for about 5-8 minutes and put her in her crib.  She, too, is usually very drowsy at this point, but sometimes she wakes up a bit.  Now, this used to cause a problem and she would immediately start screaming, but I swear after doing pu/pd for only one day, this has never happened again.  If she wakes up as she's going down, she just turns her head and nodds off.  However, I still don't get many naps past 30 minutes, and pu/pd has not worked to extend them.  She wakes up crying and is usually aggitated, but okay as long as I keep my spirits up and reassure her that everything's okay.  No, I don't always succeed and might have a nightmare on my hands until next feeding time.  Long story short, you might want to try pu/pd.
Have a great weekend.

[two_cuties]

I'm not sure what kind of baby I have - maybe spirited? I actually skipped that chapter of the book in order to get to EASY and sleep training.

Deb - Elli loves her little sister, although there are times I think she would like me to put her down, which thankfully I can do more and more often these days. I know she also misses that one-on-one time, so I'm hoping to be able to extend Abigail's naps so that we can have more of that.

Things were a little hairy last night at bedtime. I had to do pu/pd for an hour. She cries so hard, even when I'm holding her sometimes. She has now started crying during the wind-down routine too (when I sing her a song) b/c I think she knows what's coming  . I think it's harder for her at bedtime b/c up until last night I had always nursed her to sleep while at naptime I stopped doing that a while ago.

Last night was the first night w/o swaddling (I had been swaddling for night but not for naps) and I was really worried. But she slept from 9pm to 7:30am! She was up for a bit around 5:30am but didn't cry or fuss and went back to sleep on her own. Before I started pu/pd, she was already doing pretty well at night, waking just once or not at all.

We did get a bit of a longer nap yesterday afternoon - 50 min.! I was then able to re-settle her, although I didn't really do pu/pd for that. I just held/patted/bounced her until she had her eyes closed for a minute and then continued pat/shh in the crib. She slept for another 35 min. after that.

Tanya

Elli 6/26/03
Abigail 2/11/05

[two_cuties]

Debra,

I meant to ask, how do you manage to do the sleep training part with your older dd to take care of? Until yesterday I had only been doing pat-shh for 1-2 naps a day b/c that's all I could manage with Elli around (she doesn't usually play independently for too long). Beginning with yesterday I have 5 days straight where I don't have to worry about my older dd. I'm a little concerned about what happens on the sixth day and the younger one still requires 15-20 min. to go down for a nap. Any ideas?

Thanks!
Tanya

Elli 6/26/03
Abigail 2/11/05

[Schae]

Seems all our babies know what the wind down routine means hey? My wind down for Luka is...we go into a darkened room, I sing him a song while he's in my arms and I'm swaying. He's fine then, sucks his hand and looks tired, but as soon as I stop swaying then the screaming starts.  :?  I actually made a post about it in the general sleep board.

His naps would actually be about 45 minutes after that performance.
But the screaming was getting to me, I don't have infinite patience (unfortunately, coz it seems to be a mom that's exactly what you need)
So I stopped doing the wind down in the room and would do it in the living room (sing the song) then go into the room and bounce..now he sleeps without a problem.

In the evenings Dh does the sleep. HE has infinite patience and thier own wind down routine..don't know what I'll do if Dh were to go away on business.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get to  (:roll:  ) is that once I changed the wind down, he went down better. I've also just decided that I won't try and extend the naps, as long as he gets one good long nap in, then we're fine. The less stressed out I am, the better for the whoe family.

As for coming home at 2am..I'm paying for it today..I'm exhausted! Lol!!

[Deb_in_oz]

hi all - it is so funny waking up and seeing so many posts waiting...

so it seems we have a group of touchy and spirited bubs here.

our wind down is short - we just dim lights, nappy change, swaddle, offer top up feed with sound machine playing ocean waves, i  hold her and sing 1-2 verses of rockabye baby, in cot, say "nighty night - sleepy time".

i leave the room and only go back in to re-wrap and say this again.  it can take several attempts or just straight down.  usually goes down easiest at first nap. 

we too are so much happier with things now - Christine I am a second time mom and i did not know olivia was overtired - evryone kept saying - she's happy and alert... she did not (and still rarely) cry just got wired and would not sleep - oh how much i cried though  :cry: she would be up for 5 hour stretches and at evening after feed we would put her down around 7 or so and sometimes she would still be up at 11pm!!!!

now - she goes down 98% of time for naps (had a 4 hour awake stretch the other day) and if she has a good feed at bedtime goes down straight away.  lately though she wakes for food again bet 9-10pm and even with DF has night wakings (last night was 3:30 only so that is no bad - up for day at 6:50am)


Tanya - I haven't been able to really do "sleep training" with Alex underfoot.  she is such an angel baby/toddler i never once yelled at her until olivia came along.  now it is "stop that, shhh, please go out of her room, be QUIET..." i hate it and she is shocked by it.  i use DVDs a lot to keep her distracted while i try to work on settling Liv (less necessary as the weeks go by).  now that i have my mom here i plan to TRY to extend naps beyond 45 min.  (the only long one she has is the first one which can be 45m - 2.5 hours).  let me know how you do and what works.

i wonder about the planets etc at  the time of al their births (Feb 4 - 22) as they are all touchy or spirited.  anyone into this stuff and know what was up at the time.  or maybe it is the star sign stuff because to be honest my bday is Feb 23 & I am a spirited one myself - the health nurse here pointed out that 1 reason i have a hard time dealing with Olivia is because she is just like me (i get overstim, sensitive to environment, super heightened hearing, it is my noise machine that the girls inherited to sleep with  :lol: )

[Leah's Mom]

Deb-
I have a sound machine on for my DD also. I have always slept with a fan on, and still do. It's amazing I hear her in the night, with her sound machine going and my fan - it's pretty noisy at night in our house! Does your spirited one go wild when you lay her in her crib for bed? If so, how do you handle this? I have tried PU/PD a little, but it just seems to make her even wilder. The funny thing is she will never cry, just go wild and make high pitched short screams!

Funny story - we were at gradution parties this afternoon and it was naptime, so I told the people I was talking to that I was going to take her in her stroller for awhile so she could go to sleep. They looked at her and said: She doens't look tired - her eyes are wide open, she seems excited aqnd happy (she had what DH and I call "scary eyes"  :shock: , her arms and legs were flailing, and she was making high pitched short yells that people thought were cute! - all the signs of a tired spitited baby.) At least now I know when she is tired, unlike before!

Here - I attached a picture of her "scary eyes" to show you! She gives them to us when she is tired, and whenever we turn out the lights!  [/quote]

[Leah's Mom]

Wow! Now that I look at the pic, she does look quite scary. "Scary eyes" sure fits the image!

[Deb_in_oz]

OMG Christine - i keep getting more freaked out by their similarities (and  obviously the similarities we share with our lo).

olivia rarely cries even when we put her down in her cot. she fusses and squeals and often fights her swaddle.  that's why i go back and rewrap of necessary.  it used to be much noisier but she settles herself really well  now - i had a visit form one of the family care centres here and the nurse explained that this is the way this type of baby releases all that energy in order to sleep.  they do  not go quietly.  Olivia just does not seem to want to GIVE IN to the tiredness. but i am so optimistic b/c now she is so much better since we started bottle feeding.  i just finished a feed and put her down and it took her less than 10 min to settle herself and fall asleep - did not go in even once (and this is nap #2).  this morning she woke after 1hr 10 from nap 1 and i left her a bit and she resettled herself (PROGRESS) although only for another 5-10 minutes but i find it encouraging.

your graduation story is our entire first 7 weeks! 

part of our problem in those early weeks was that she was not getting enough milk to satisfy her and she almost always seemed to be in pain or uncomfortable...  we were always trying to figure her out.  we were spoiled first time around with a textbook/angel who always gave very clear cues so as long as we had her in bed by yawn #2 she went down w/out any probs and slept WELL and hardly ever missed a nap.

what i wanted to ask everyone since we all have spirited or touchy: what are you all doing for activities as everything overstimulates olivia withing a few minutes.  I am starting to think i CAN extend her awake time gradually if i do the extra time as SUPER low key stuff but am  not sure what to do.

also: what are your bubs cues as i still find it hard - i am trying to devote more time to observing her.

so far for us:

cues:
overstim = laughing, jerky limbs / whole body, wide eyed, almost like a "crazy lady"
tired = (hardly ever yawns  :roll: ) excessive cooing/babble, jerky limbs

activities:
mostly time on blanket on floor - talking to us/looking around, looking at stuffed toy (sometimes i pretend to have a dog talk to her... :oops: ), very quick stay under gymini - gets very stim.; sit in bouncy seat looking at shadows/light play on walls; tummy time (very good at this at least and is v. happy doing this)

i find i project onto her my feelings that this is boring and she won't develop if she isnt given opportunities to "play" actively.  i have been assured by nirses that the key is cuddles/time with us and proper feeding and sleep, BUT can only compare to 1st time experiences and dd1 was doing so much by now - she did a lot early though so i have to remind myself of that.

 would love to hear what everyone's lo are doing...

[HeatherC]

Christine-that picture is hilarious!!  What a cutie, even if it is a scary face. 
With Kelsey being a touchy baby, our activities are short lived.  She gets bored quickly, just as I think she's having fun.  Due to her reflux, she immediately goes in her bouncy seat after eating (bf and some formula bottles every now and then), and sits there for about 20 minutes.  I usually sit on the floor next to her and we "talk", or I show her stuffed animals.  She also likes to watch Baby Einstein, or animated cartoons, but, once again, for short spits.  I try to get her to play on the floor on her back to encourage her mobility, but she hates tummy time.  She'll get cranky, so I'll carry her around the house, we'll go outside, or she'll try her swing for a bit.  I just keep alternating her so that she doesn't get mad.  After a few activites, she'll stop interacting with me (meaning she won't look at me or toys I put in front of her) and give me a "I'm tired of this and don't want to be bothered anymore" fussy cry.  Now that she has more leg power, she'll push off of me and arch her back.  This means it's nap time!  Sometimes I'll catch her yawning, but she doesn't always.  When we're out and she has to sleep in her stroller, she'll fuss for about 10 minutes, and I'll keep trying to get her to keep her paci, and finally she'll nod off.  I tell people that she may be fussy, but at least she's predictable.

[Lizzie]

Hi everyone!

Last two days have been a nightmare! Seems like Alex has picked up a tummy bug  :cry:   & refusing feeds left right & centre. Yesterday he took 18oz & so far today 12oz. I've been making up lots of bottles only to thro them away as he refused to eat sometimes going 6/7 hrs without a bottle. Tried to offer water but screams & screams. Generally he seems happy but the lack of food is making me anxious/stresed. Might stop D/F as he takes in so much air but can never get burps out of him as he's fast asleep... sorry just needed to whinge, i'm sure he'll be ok in a few days..

Deb - i though i'd let you know my LOs tired signs / activities
His tired signs are Eye rubbing & making a very whingy noise in back of throat. I hate the fact that when he goes down for naps/bedtime the only thing that will comfort him is his paci. yet I can't bear to take it away, also may not be fair as I still swaddle him so doesn't have his hands for comfort..

During his awake time he sits on my lap & we look at picture books with different textures. Also he loves nursery rhymes with actions like This little piggy, Head, shoulders, knees & toes!
I also put him in his carseat & take him with me when I wash up, put the washing out etc..

Christine - I too find it hard to know what he wants when he wakes at night. I always try the paci but end up feeding in the end too.

Your little ones all seems to be starting solids soon, I think we're a long way off that yet!

Hope your all having a better day than me!

[949nikkirn]

I just found this website yesterday and I love it. All the other sites have ladies who are all into attachment parenting and that is so not us. This theroy just makes so much sense!!! I am so glad you are here experiencing the same parenting style we are. 
We had out first baby 2-23-05. His name is Trace and is a Touchy/Spirited baby. We know this because he just thrives on the routine. When we veer from it we pay the price. I am a nap slave!!! My day goes much smoother if his 3 naps a day are in his crib. We are really lucky because we read Tracey's book before we delivered and after a couple of times. So from day one we tried to stick with the routine and he has slept 11 hours at night since 9 1/2 weeks and a couple of weeks ago I got him on a 4 hour routine. But right now we are struggling with 45 minute naps, although he just finally took a two hour nap. Don't know what I did different. He takes 8 oz(usually) at each feed. He is on the chunky side and I occasionally wonder if I am over feeding, but we go for shots at the 4 month visit so I think I will address it there. Btw, I am nervous to start solids next month. Doesn't it seem that the schedule will be feeding or giving a bottle ALL THE TIME?  I'm not lazy, but I just think if he doesn't have to have it then maybe I'll wait. What will you girls do?
Yippee. I am so glad you girls are here.

[Deb_in_oz]

Lizzie - so sorry to hear that Alex is unwell - i hope he is better soon.  i hate it when kids get ill when they are little since it is so hard to know what they need...

welcome nikki - 2-23 is my birthday!!  funny how its another touchy / spirited one - Trace'll fit right in, although i would not know what 11 hours of sleep was like ... lucky you!  olivia is 7kg as of today (15.4 pounds) so is putting on so much weight (due to her night wakings and getting extra calories in the evening as well). i have been advised to try to get her off the night feeds that started up again at 3 mo growth spurt.  she really should be able to get through with 1 or no night feeds at this age and weight. 

we won't be starting solids anytime soon - the rec. in Australia is 6 months.  with dd1 we started rice cereal around 5 months or so because after sleeping through since 10 weeks old she started waking hungry and we thought she needed more food.  Olivia is on mostly formula (dd1 was EBF) and we'll see how she goes between now and 5 months but are not going to rush in to it.

[949nikkirn]

Debra,
To wean Trace off of his night feeds I started to decrease the amount each night by an ounce until there was nothing to give and I just gave a paci that last night. I was thinking the other day also that his first night he slept all the way through was after his first set of shots when I gave him some Tylenol before bed. I preceded to give Tylenol for 2 more nights after this just in case he was uncomfortable or something. I am not sure if any of these factors did it or if maybe he was just ready, but I thought I would share.
Lizzie,
Trace being sick scares the heck out of me. I barely feel like I know what I'm doing and if you throw illness in I would totally be lost. I'll keep you in my prayers.
ACTIVITIES- Every morning right after the first bottle I put Trace in the bouncy seat in front of Baby Mozart for 30 minutes (and occasionally another play of it). I used to have a pack n play in my living room and I put the gymini in it and when he got overstimulated I would just put him under that. He loves looking in the mirror that hangs down. Trace now sits in his exercauser for 30 minutes at a time without freaking out. We also got him a bungee thing that hands him from a doorway. This is his favorite as there isn't too much stimulation right in front of him. Our puppy just sits in front of him and they stare at eachother. He really doesn't like tummy time, but we try anyway. Once he gets fussy AT ALL  then it's right to the crib. Lately when I have him in his bouncy seat or lying down he tries to lift his head so I think he likes to be up right more now. That is why I think he really likes the exercauser and bungee thing.

nikki
Trace 2-23-05

[HeatherC]

Ladies,
A few of you posted replies mentioning getting rid of the night feed.  Are you speaking of wee hours of the early morning, or say 10-11 pm?  Right now I have DD nursing 6 times a day, with the last being at 10 pm.  I'm wondering if I should give this up as I'm always having to wake her up from a deep sleep (she goes down between 8-8:30 pm).  The doctor says she'll be fine without that feed if she doesn't wake up, but not knowing if she'll wake during the night is what scares me.  I hate to mess with a good thing, but it would be a great thing to not have to wake her up.  Those of you with older children, what were your experiences?