Author Topic: Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??  (Read 9396 times)

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Offline Mommy in Moose Jaw

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2006, 11:58:23 am »
Hello all.  I've been backwards and forwards over the sleep interview and our routine and am still at a loss.  I think it's mostly a growth spurt but am having trouble getting dd to eat any more during the day.  Wake up times are erratic at night, so that makes me still suspect hunger.  I've tried everything -- more food, more activity, less activity, more sleep, less sleep, later bed, earlier bed and pretty much nothing has changed.  Last night she was easy to resettle, but tonight I ended up having to give her a small feed at 4:00 am as NOTHING was settling her. 

She is now so distractable at the breast during the day I can't believe she's taking anything in, sometimes feeds only last 5 minutes total, and she's SO impatient with the letdown.  We used to have to nurse with her on top of me so the letdown wouldn't drown her, now it's not fast enough??  Good grief. 

Also I think she's in the process of dropping her last nap so is getting v. tired at night and having a harder time settling.

I don't think hammering away at pu/pd is the answer at night right now as she seems to settle with a little sh/pat if she is not hungry.  I hesitate to give her more solids during the day as she is taking about 9 oz of solids already and that seems a bit much for this age??  She is a big baby however, 95th%ile.  I'll try offering more tomorrow and see what happens....

If this is all just a 'stage' I think I've had enough!!  I often only get about 3 hours of sleep and then insomnia sets in.  I feel like I'm chasing my own tail with possible explanations.  I wish someone had a magic wand....

Sleepless in Saskatchewan


Offline magicbelly

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2006, 20:46:43 pm »
Mummy in Moose Jaw, sorry to hear that things are not settling. My 5.5 slept through last night, woke from 4-430am talking and playing, i didn't go in just listened and she eventually went back off to sleep. i know if i checked on her, the moment she saw me she would cry but then i lay awake concered she isnt unwrapped.

she is taking a big df and i rub bmilk over my nipples before i go to her (not sure if it makes any difference). dayfeeds, she is still very distracted and often only seems to feed for 5-10min but she still lasts 4hrs between feeds so i must conclude that they are more efficient feeders. another strategy i have started is to have her straddle me (facing my breast sitting on each leg) which sometimes helps with distractions. this mornings feed lasted 5min. i put her down on activity mat for play time with nappy off, gave her a play then sat her up on the ground between my legs and she finished her feed very well. generally i have to keep changing tact. others on bf forum have suggested a nursing necklace.

this is all new to me so i am certainly not in a position to offer my advice but hopefully she is slowly starting to grow out of this stage. maybe my bub is one week ahead of yours becasue her pattern was the same as yours over the past 3 weeks. all i would do is stick to the routine and feed her once in the night only if she is taking a full feed, if not wait it out to see if it is habitual waking. do you wait a good while before going in to her overnight so she doesnt expect you to always help settle, maybe she is looking for a little comfort??? i am just throwing ideas at you now.

Offline travis's mum

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2006, 19:21:41 pm »
Hi ladies DS woke again last night, first making noises then after about 30min started to cry forthe bottle ( I know for sure when he is hungry because he has a very angry hungry cry) I first offered him some water but after a couple of min sucking I gave him a bottle of milk.  He only drank 2 oz of milk but I have a huge hunch this has turned into a growth spurt.

I'm really curious how you all are handling it. I know Tracy says feed him the first night then fill him up the next day, but this is sooo much easier said then done. If ds doesn't want any more milk there is nothing I can do to tempt him, :roll: , I try to add as much as I can to his solids without making them too sloppy but appart from that there is nothing else I can do there is only so many hours in one day.

So I'm thinking if he wakes again tonight I will offer him some cooled boiled water first and if he sucks like he's very hungry I will give him milk.  Last night he woke at 2 am fed him at 2.30 he slept till 7.30 after drinking only 2oz of milk and about 3 oz of water.

I'm really strugling to decide what is the right thing to do as I really don't want him to get used to eating at night. I'm happy that he managed to sleep for another 5hrs after such a small feed and I'm hoping I'm tackling this in the best way, as I would like to move forward and not backwards.

I would love to hear how you all are getting on and what tactics you are using and weather they work.

Look forward to here from you Natalie x

Offline Mommy in Moose Jaw

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2006, 22:58:26 pm »
SHE SLEPT THROUGH!!!!  I am so pumped!  My last post was in the midst of terrible insomnia in the wee hours of Wed morning after 'giving in' and feeding dd a little following 1 hour wakefulness and being inconsolable with anything else.  I ended up not going back to sleep as I knew I would just let the alarm come and go at 7:00am if I did.  So, I got dd up at 7:00 on Wed morning despite her being up for a while the night before.  Previously, I had let her sleep if we had a rough night but could see a pattern beginning, so I got her up and gave her a full feed plus once extra on each breast to increase supply.  Knowing that I was going to do that on Wed was part of why I only gave her a small feed at 4:00am, so she would be hungry enough to take a full feed at 7:00am.

Then at 8:30 I offered solids.  She rarely takes much at that point in the day, but I made sure she had her fav food (bananas) so I knew if she didn't eat much it was a hunger thing and not a food preference thing.  Still only took about 5 baby spoonfuls.  Each time she nursed yesterday, I offered both breasts twice to increase supply and each time she took the extra offered, which she'll only do if hungry.  For solids, I kept feeding her until she objected rather than stopping after a couple of ounces.  This led to a HUGE lunch (9 oz) for a total of about 14 oz for the day.  She also took great naps and was very content all day.  She also didn't wake up early for the df which she had done for a couple of nights and then slept all the way through to 6:45!!! 

Granted, this is only one day and things may still change but with that result I am convinced the primary problem was hunger.  It was all very confusing as she jsut started to need solids at Christmas (one day after being 5 months) so I didn't think she could possibly need so much food at this point.  Also, I had used the technique to increase milk supply for 3 days twice since Christmas and previous growth spurts only needed that once.  ALSO, we had an illness and first episode of teething in the middle of all this so I was concerned her waking during illness or teething may have become a pattern, so I really hesitated to offer food at night.  And then she is also occasionally sleeping differently during the day and dropping her late afternoon catnap so all our predictable patterns had been turned on their ear!  So many changes at this age!!  Tracy's book says there is often a major growth spurt at 6 months so I didn't immediately think that was what was happening at 5 months but several people have said their lo's grew more at 5 months.  And dd suddenly seems much bigger and is filling the length of the change table and carseat, and standing straight up in exersaucer!     

To Travis's Mom, as for adding more cals, the only thing we can do at this point is to add solids, especially for bottle fed babies.  The composition of breast milk will add more fat as needed, but your baby's tummy will only hold so much liquid and then he needs more solids for more cals.  The only caution I have read is to just not cut out milk feeds and replace with solids, but if baby is still hungry with a full liquid diet, add more food.  I personally don't think you need to try to get him to drink more formula if he is already taking max oz over the day.  When I look back on my food and sleep log, I found I fed dd at some point in the night for about 1 week and it didn't become a clockwork habit, so if the problem is in fact food, you probably don't have to worry if you still have to feed him at night occasionally while you're working this out.  I offer that only because your pattern seems similar to mine, I hope that will help you.
 
Keep your fingers crossed for me ladies that we continue to have good nights!!!


Offline Sarah O

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2006, 23:07:57 pm »
Mommy in Moosejaw I'm thrilled for you!  That's great.

My own night of bliss was unfortunately a one-of.  His highness was back to his terrible nights again last night.  Add to that, my baby girl (we learned today) requires a biopsy on a tumour on her hard palate.  :(

Just when I think things can't get any harder, they do.  Please send me some positive vibes guys?

Thanks!!

Sarah
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Offline mothergloose

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2006, 03:27:24 am »
Sarah O - definitely thinking of you in all aspects (for sleeping through the night and your girl's health)

Mummy Moosejaw - I hope you've got your breakthrough :D  - it sounds like you've tried everything possible!!  I don't know how you've last on the amount of sleep you've been getting.

:?:  re df (and also the sleep interview notes - maybe magicbelly you can help me?!).. when introducing df by bringing 3am back by 1/2hr to 11pm, is that 1/2hr each night or every 2-3 nights to make it more gradual? (I've been reading a lot lately and info is starting to blur!!  :shock: )

I've already tried to start reducing minutes but ds cracked a fit a couple of nights ago and last night even though successful the first times. Last night, he woke at 2.15am for feed even though df at 11pm (not a strong feed but still lasted about 10mins).

Cheers!
Rochelle
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Offline magicbelly

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2006, 04:02:55 am »
I am still working my way through Tracey's latest book but it is providing valuable information.
Mummy Moosejaw: I believe she means bring feed back 1/2hr each night until you reach df.

Natalie: i am on metric system so not sure how much milk the night feed is however i am guessing it is small. if so, Tracey suggests it is not true hunger but habit. My bub had the same pattern and change as Mummy Moosejaw, the growthspurt, if it was one, happened at 5 mths. This week so far has been going exceptionally well sticking to strict routine she has slept through 4 nights straight and settling is faster each time. But it was a good month of a very unsettled period. If all continues i will ease however i find outings very disruptive to her sleep patterns and always end up with a cranky baby. however i am not one to stay indoors.

Sarah O: I really am sending positive vibes to you and your babies. All the best.

Offline travis's mum

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2006, 08:37:30 am »
Hi ladies thanks for all the feed back, Mommy in moose jaw, I'm really glad things seem to be looking up for you :D  I hope that if I continue to fill up DS during the day and offer dummy first then water then milk we should be able to prvent a habbit of him eating alot at night like he used to.  It seems like in order to have a happy settled baby we have to pump them full of food.

I seem to be sqeezing in two feeds (formula and solids) at each awake time (1.5hrs-2hrs) wich is not that easy. I didn't realise babies needed so much feeding.

Ds did wake last night but after our routine went back to sleep till 7am.  So at least the night time baby insomnia has stopped. :wink: I will keep an eye on what time he wakes each night and give it two weeks and feed him at night (again :roll: ). If by then he doesn't start sleeping through I will have to change tacticts.

In the mean time I will keep in touch and let you all know how things are going.

Sarah O I will be thinking of you and sending good vibes your way, for you and your baby girl. Hopefully night times will get back on track for you too soon.

Natalie x.

Offline magicbelly

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2006, 00:52:35 am »
Hi mums

well it has been almost a week and Chloe has slept through almost everynight, no night feeds though.

i think getting the food in is a major issue too. to get as much bmilk in during the day i have found the best way is feed as long as possible, play 10min or so, feed, play etc. yep feeds are drawn out and i only have one bub so time is on my hands compared wiht the rest of you but it is amazing how much she keeps taking compared with giving up feeding after the first distractions like i was doing before.

hope the nights improve for you all.

Offline Mommy in Moose Jaw

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2006, 01:22:34 am »
Sarah O  Thoughts and prayers are with you!  It really reminds you that there are things that are truly more important to worry about sometimes!  Good luck!

Last night the first time dd woke up was for a 5:00am feeding and she was ravenous.  Unfortunately, she had a hard time getting back into deep sleep and needed some sh/pat at 5:40 and then woke up for the day at 6:15.  Still, it is progress.  Yesterday and today she only took two naps also so that is another change in the works.

This growth spurt just keeps going and going and going.  After playing in her crib until nearly 7am, she had another full feed at 7am and 5 oz solids at 8:30am (that's TONS more than she has ever taken at that time).  Things seem to have levelled out as the day wore on.  For breastfeeding I have been nursing twice on each breast and I think I may just continue that for a while as she does take more that way as magicbelly has noticed also.  DS is in school all day so I also have a fair amount of time to devote to feeding.

Over and over Tracy's books have examples of sleep problems that are really food problems and that certainly seems to be the case here.  They're growing and changing so much but at the same time don't want to sit still for food, so it's hard to identify that as the issue when they don't 'seem' hungry.  This could all be very coincidental, but for now I think I've found a good part of the problem and hope things continue to improve.

I hope everyone continues to post their progress or observations as I'm sure there will be a new issue next week!


Offline mthyne

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2006, 20:49:44 pm »
Jane--
welcome to the confusing world of 4-6 month olds!
I hope that the dairy intolerance is the problem!  Let us know!
Melissa
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Offline Jane Pitt

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2006, 21:40:59 pm »
Not counting my chickens yet...but he did sleep from 8pm to 5.45am last night.  Hoping he'll do the same again tonight...

J

Offline CCJay

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2006, 21:48:25 pm »
Well my wk started off great. Slept through Sun and Mon but unfortunately I spok too soon. Woke up Wed 3AM, Thurs 5AM. Not too bad, but Fri night he seemed to be awake all night. I had decided to not try df anymore cos he wasn't taking it. But gave it a go again lst night. Same story, he pursed his lips. Anyway good night again last night-8.30 to 6.20 but I'm not too optimistic that this will continue. He used to sleep in a gro bag but it was suggested to me that this might be the problem as he wouldn't be able to be as active as he wants. This doesn't seem to make any difference. I've succeeded in getting more calories into him these days but again nights are the same. Countdown to back to work only 2 wks now. I feel very down when I talk to people I meet in town. They all seem to have babies who sleep all night! Ds is definitely teething but no sign of tooth yet. Don't think this is the only problem.
I'm glad to hear it seems to be working out now for a lot of you.My baby will be 6 months on Fri. He had only slept well really from 3-4 months. I now feel like I haven't slept properly since before the birth.

Offline misha

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2006, 22:12:45 pm »
Hi all!
I came to the website for exactly this same problem and have read all 5 pages! Congrats on the good outcomes for some of you.

I have also been v. confused as my LO and I just came back from a 2 week trip to California and we live in Barcelona- so add 9 hours of jet lag to the mix! Sheesh!  :shock:

I guess I will work on day feeds and getting him back on a regular schedule again, he currently is going about 9pm-10am, which makes a dream feed too late, but then he's hungry during the night... You all know the story!

I will be checking back and updating on progress too. LO seems to want to drop the cat-nap too... so it's all a big mess after second long nap!

CCJay- don't despair! Not all babies sleep through the night and not all parents tell the truth! "Sleeping through the night" means more than 6 hours in a row, and BW schedule is 12 hours, so according to most dr's your baby is indeed sleeping through the night, just not at the same times as Mommy would like!  :wink:
Michelle & Max

Offline magicbelly

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Why does her sleep SUCK between 2-5am??
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2006, 22:14:55 pm »
CCJay hang in there. i guarentee if you ask many of those mothers what qualifies 'sleeping through' there will be many definitions. if they do have a perfect sleeper there are always other things that will challenge their day so dont compare yourself. if it helps, at least you know there is a world of mums with the same problem as yourself and we represent a handful of them. (my bub turns 6mths end of this week too)

just stick to your daily routines and rituals. dont forget Tracey also suggests there can be a regression 5-7days after a progression. this happened to me over the weekend. i had a great week where Chloe slept through then for 2 days/nights it took me 3hrs to get her down, she would on catnap 20-40min during the day etc and i felt very disappointed and strained. then i woke up yesterday morning suddenly rememberinng Tracey's warning and thought "I am internalising this too much, let it go, i will be back on track, stay positive" (my husband letting me sleep for 3 hrs that morning also helped). Yes, we are back on track today, she slept through last night and woke a happier bub again.

unfortunatley the weekends are disruptive to routine too. can't avoid this.

I am going to start solids end of the week. chloe showing a huge interest in our food.

Sarah O, i have been thinking about your twins. hope you have good news this week.