Support for dropping the last nap age 2-3 yrs

[aisling]

This thread is for LO's starting to show signs of dropping the last nap at around the age of 2yrs. The process can be long and many do go back and forth on needing a nap.

Please see this support thread for children ages 3yrs+
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=143708.0;topicseen

[NiknLily]

Hi I have done a seperate post with this but I thought I'd join this thread too

Lily will be 27m old and for last couple of weeks has started messing about sleep wise.  She has always been a really good sleeper, other than at transitions in routine.  She used to do a 12hr night and 1.5hr nap for the longest time.  Then she started waking earlier, not loads but noticeable iykwim and taking a while to get to sleep at nap and bedtime, just chatting to herself.  This isn't usual for Lily she has always gone to sleep within 5mins of going to bed/nap.  So I extended morning A time 30mins and moved bedtime 30min later and things where OK until she started preschool in september.  This meant no nap 2 days a week so I changed routine back to previous one shifting back those 30min increases coupled with early nights by 1hr on school days to compensate for OT, this worked really well.  Until couple of weeks ago when she skipped her nap on the monday, then had school on the tuesday and skipped her nap on the wednesday.  Thursday I kept her home from school and she did nap, I did some early nights and so I thought we had sorted out the little blip, she certainly wasn't OT anymore.

But, since she has been taking 30mins + to get to sleep for nap, just chatting away to herself (winding mummy up   ) then has taken as long to settle at night has had some nw's, not really long ones although she has had 1 1.5hr nw, mainly they have just been pesky nws and she might wake every 45mins for 2.25hrs at some point in the night and has started to wake a little early again, only 15/20mins but you could use her as an alarm set to 7am for most of her life.

We are still waiting on top 2 2yr molars but they haven't even bumped up yet, there is no sign of teeth coming, to be sure though I have given meds 30mins before nap and bedtime and it makes no difference.

So I figured maybe she just needed longer A times again now she has got used to missing her naps on school days and she is 3m older.  So I upped her morning A time by 15min and bedtime by 15min for 3/4days and she was still chatting and not settling to sleep like she usually does for another 15+mins, so I upped by another 15mins.  So far though it doesn't seem to have had the desired effect, today she skipped her nap again so was in bed by 6.30 asleep by 6.45pm, last night the later bedtime meant after she had talked to herself and called me upstairs too many times it was almost 8pm before she fell asleep.

I am going to try moving back that last 15mins, I'm thinking maybe pushing to 30min jump was too much BUT I'm also thinking is this it? is she starting to drop her nap, is the general restless nights because although she still takes a nap 5days a week maybe thats too much sleep for her.

I know she still needs a nap as when she skipped for 3days she did a 2hr nw, which she would normally only do when teething, but like I say I see no sign of teeth yet, at all.

Old routine on non school days was
wake up 7am
nap at 12.30pm
bedtime 7pm

routine I had moved to on non school days was
wake 6.45/7am
nap 1pm - 2/2.15pm
bed 7.30pm

Any thoughts on what might be going on would be much appreciated and if it is dropping her nap much needed advise on dealing with it     

[katemom]

Hi,

I have a 25 month old who is doing similar things with taking forever to fall asleep for naps and bedtime, waking earlier than she used to, and had a couple of NW too.  I wish I knew what to suggest for both of us!  It sounds like you are doing some good experimenting, and that is all I can do myself.  I have a post on the main toddler sleep board too "still need help with 2 yr. old's sleep" and so far the recommendation is that my kid is OT, because having short nights, etc.  So I'm trying to put her down earlier for naps and bedtime, to compensate.  I don't know if it's just going to take awhile for it to work, or if I'm not doing enough, or if she needs something completely different.  Anyway, I know how aggravating this all is.  It must be that more challenging with having some no-nap days.  If I make any progress on our situation, I'll let you know, and be sure to do the same if things improve with you.

katemom 

[NiknLily]

Hi, sorry been a while since you posted.

Well as it turned out it was those 2 last teeth, I felt 1 tiny point coming through one side a couple of weeks ago now and just today I felt a tiny point the other side so we now have both last teeth coming.  It was very strange as there was just no sign's that it was teeth and meds didn't always do anything to help.

So I have shifted her routine right back again to 12.30 nap (normally 1hr, which is new as she was napping longer) and bedtime 7pm.  The nws stopped, the ew's also slowly dissapeared in fact this last week we have had 7.20am & 7.50am wake ups!!

I've gone by the clock with Lily's sleep since she transitioned to 1 nap and it has always worked really well, I guess if I'd of kept things the same they would of gone back to normal sooner than they did, my bad! 

[katemom]

Wow, that is great news, that you're back to naps again and everything is going smoother - thanks for giving an update! I guess those teeth are harder to handle than we may realize!  Anyway, I'm glad things worked out!

katemom

[NiknLily]

how did putting your LO down earlier work for you? I think Lily was about that age, maybe a month or so older when I did have to start putting her down later for nap and bedtime, this really helped until she started preschool when I changed back to make up for no nap days at pre school.

[katemom]

We're still in the process of figuring things out - but it's improving.  I'm putting down earlier to bed now that she is taking longer to go to sleep, and now she is getting long nights again (11 hours as opposed to 10 or 10.5).  I'm still trying to find the magic window for naps - after all this experimentation, I've forgotten what works best!  But I think we're close to getting a smooth routine going.  Of course, travelling during the holidays will probably put us a little backwards, but I'm hoping the new year will bring better sleep for BOTH of my kids!  (My 6 month old was a nightmare sleeper the first few months, but is steadily getting better).

katemom

[NiknLily]

Fingers crossed things settle down for you soon. 

As I said Lily is teething hard at present so is getting Calpol Night for nap and bedtime but with the excitement of Christmas I don't think she would be getting any sleep at all if she wasn't having it!

[JulieNG]

My DD will be 3 April 5. She has been an excellent sleeper since day 1. She is now barley taking naps. It started about 2 months ago, she would occasionally not sleep maybe 1 day per week. Now I'm lucky if I get a nap 2 days per week. We took her pacifier away last Saturday because we were down to 1 and she bit a hole in it. I'm afraid this is it since we lost the pacifier. She gets up at 7:30 on the days she goes to "pre-school" and 8 on the other days. Bedtime is usually 8, unless no nap, then 7 or 7:30. Is she getting too much nightime sleep? When she wakes at 8 what time should I put her down? I usually do 1:30, but I've tried as late as 2 and as early as 1. She is still in the crib. Should I shorten night sleep to get a nap or do u think this is it?

[NiknLily]

Hi

well as wehaven't yet got there I can't really say for sure if you should or not.  Is she coping well with no naps and early bedtimes?  I'd say that will be your answer, if she enjoys a good 11.5-12hr night mostly and is coping OK with no nap then thats probably what she needs to be doing.

At 3yrs old they only need 12hrs total sleep per day so if she is getting this at night and topping up with a couple of naps a week then in theory, even though she is still not quite 3 she should be getting enough.

I'm guessing that LO's who do a long night, and generally as a result take shorter nap (Lily does this average 11.5-12hrs at night and 1-1.15hr nap) then they may drop the nap slightly sooner than a LO who takes a 2hr nap but only does a 10-10.5hr night.

Personally I'd rather Lily drop her nap and still be in bed by 7pm wake up at 7am than take a nap and not be in bed till 8/9/10pm at night.

[JulieNG]

Thanks for the help.  No nap since Saturday and I would say she is doing alright, but bedtime she gives me more trouble than before. She is so OT by bedtime that she fights it. She NEVER did that before. I hope it will get better, although I'll still keep trying for a nap each day.

[NiknLily]

thats all you can do really isn't it, give them the chance to sleep, if they don't, well theres nothing you can do.

what total sleep was she getting before she started to drop the nap?  are you trying to almost match that? I'd be trying to give her a 13hr night if she will take one, simply because she is still 3/4months of being 3 so 12hrs total may be slightly short.

I'm sure you've thought about this, but has she got all her teeth yet? Lily was working on her last 2 2yr molars and that has given us lots of dropped naps and bedtime fussing, so much so that over christmas I was giving her Calpol night just to ensure she would go to sleep.  Like I say sure you've thougt of that already but its worth asking.

[JulieNG]

Before she dropped completely she would nap 4 days per week and not nap 3 (average). On nap days she would go to bed at 8 (8:30 latest depending on how long she napped) and wake at 7:30-8:00 (mostly . She would nap for 2 hours. So I would say 13.5-14 hours. On no nap days, she would wake at 8 and go to bed 7-7:30. So I guess 13 hours. It's hard now to get her to bed at 7 b/c my 16 month old goes between 7-7:30! I don't think he teeth are bothering her, but i'll have to check it out again. Thanks for your help.

[JulieNG]

Around 5pm my DD is hyper and I think is OT. She was never a hyper child before and now she is flying off the walls around dinner. She went to bed at 7 tonight and probably could have gone sooner. Do I still keep trying to put her in bed each day knowing she won't sleep? That is what I've been doing and she's give me 45 minutes and then starts to scream. She fights it though when I put her in bed she will cry a bit.

[katemom]

Julie,

I would definately try an earlier bedtime if not doing a nap that day, especially if your lo is acting OT.  I'd say in bed by 6:15 maybe?  I think that you should continue to present the opportunity for a nap, and if it doesn't happen, that quiet time is still a good thing.  My ped. recommended that to not only help the transition when they drop their nap, but it's a good idea afterwards just to give them some chill time, and you too!  I'm no expert on any of this by the way, but that is what I would do if in your shoes...

katemom